Victoria Tactical Mobilization- a suggestion.

[valisk]

Having thought a bit about it I think Victoria could really do with a tactical mobilization screen.

Lets say this screen gives the ability to manage national mobilization.

It provides a world map, with areas where divisions are mobilized highlighted, so player can switch which pops to mobilize, within their mobilization limits.
Player can then ‘practice’ mobilize and set up a series of mobilization scripts.
Where units mobilise, move into position and concentrate, forming army groups, and then make the first moves in a planned assault on the enemy, including a specifically timed declaration of war.

The plan could be based on specific divisions and ships or percentages etc. You could select either 14th Reserve Division moves from Danzig to Konigsberg and merges with the 15th Reserve Division into VI. Korps. Then marches into Russian territory. Or you could select, all divisions in Danzig merge and move to Konigsberg where they merge again into VI. Korps then move into Russia, allowing for a more flexible plan when you have increased your mobilization reserve dramatically.

The player can create a series of mobilization plans based upon various contingencies and save them, perhaps as separate files like the formation tactics in the CM series.

The AI could have several pre made plans, like the Schlieffen plan or plan XIX with which to get started, this could of course be added to by players and modders.

This could also prevent, the AI failing to mount invasions, as Island nations could have mobilization plans for war, which include in their scripted opening moves divisions moving to transports and being deposited on enemy territory.

During the mobilization phase, the armies would effectively be locked from player control, until the final move had been enacted or for perhaps 40 days (perhaps longer but altered by techs.) after mobilization.

I realize that this would add another layer of micro-management to the game, which for some may not be ideal, and for them the pre-scripted mobilization or current random mobilization could well prevent overkill.

Having such an option imho would make good mobilization plans very important and mobilizing first essential. It would also be highly historical, allowing players to make detailed plans in the same way Schlieffen, Kitchener and Joffrey did.

[rafiki]

Sounds really sweet. However, I suspect that this will need quite a few changes in the engine as well as necessitate additions/improvements for the AI

Rafiki

[valisk]

Originally Posted by rafiki

Sounds really sweet. However, I suspect that this will need quite a few changes in the engine as well as necessitate additions/improvements for the AI

Rafiki

I'm not sure it would need any large scale engine alterations, as the movements for troops are already stored in the save files.
Tactical Mobilization would simply externalize this info into a new file and lock the movements from the player or AI until mobilization is complete.
It would of course require Johan & co. to write a tactical mobilization front end to add into the game but I think it could be done without too much hassle.

Or perhaps it could be added as a seperate editor, and the game itself would simply be altered to look for and use a plan if available otherwise use default mobilization.

[Stefanos]

I like this as long as mobilization remains an "all or nothing" option. One of the root causes of WWI was the fact that Germany couldn't partially mobilize. Their plans were to mobilize on both fronts [France & Russia] or not at all. When they mobilized against Russia, they forced France's hand.

[Sapper_Astro]

Has anyone seen any DOW for mobilising?

[valisk]

Originally Posted by Sapper_Astro

Has anyone seen any DOW for mobilising?

Yes, I was Dowed by the Ottoman Empire after experimenting by repeatedly mobilising and Demobilising as Germany.

[steveh11]

Does mobilising add to the BB score then?

[Rudolf]

Since we have those stupid notes that pop up about professionalism and organization, why not have them really mean something. I like the idea. Actually, even having a Korp or Army assigned to a particular area to grab the mobilized divisions as was the setup in most countries.

[Spruce]

Originally Posted by Sapper_Astro

Has anyone seen any DOW for mobilising?

yes,

As USA I got Dow'd by Mexico because I mobilised,

the issue is that the whole world knows you are mobilising,

perhaps there can be a chance a mobilisation is "spotted" by the enemy, that chance increases after a few weaks to cope with the high amount of soldiers being massed,

I do believe Victoria bringing much fun with the mobilisation topic, but everybody knows when you do it,,

[skkrrt]

meant to make a new thread.

[valisk]

I asked Johan if this would be possible and he's noted that no new appendages will be added to the game in the future.
So any such addition will undoubtedly have to wait until Paradox decide to make Victoria 2.

[azid]

why isnt the ai made to focus more on mobilizable troops? IMo supply costs for troops should be raised by a whole lot so you have to focus more on enlarging your mobilization pool. it would make the game a bit more realistic..

[Sam Gamgee]

Originally Posted by azid

why isnt the ai made to focus more on mobilizable troops? IMo supply costs for troops should be raised by a whole lot so you have to focus more on enlarging your mobilization pool. it would make the game a bit more realistic..

The problem w/ raising support costs like that is when you do actually mobilize, you cna't afford to pay your divisions. Maybe if there was a trigger that reduced costs after you MOB'ed would work.

[Tel]

It sounds like a good idea, and might be fun to do once or twice, but I think it would really be a micromanagement nightmare and wouldn't help out much.

Why? Because each war would be different. Say as Prussia in 1850 you set up a mobilization schedule for a war with Russia. But before the war starts, Russia beats Austria in a war and takes some Czech provinces, making your common border with Russia much longer. Then you have to go back in and redo the whole process.

Even if the plan you make up is still a good one when the war starts, it will only be useful for that one war. You'ree in the war, presumably, to take as much ground as possible. The border will be completely different when the next war rolls around. It makes a big difference as Prussia if my only border with France is Saarbrucken or if I've taken a bunch of their provinces already and have several border provinces. And once Prussia becomes Germany everything changes.

So basically you've just changed it from movement of troops on the map itself to movement of troops on some abstracted mobilization map. It's not going to save any time because you need to have a different set up for almost every war because the starting point will be different.

And of course since the AI can also declare war on you you need to have plans set up for wars against every country, which you will need to revise all the time depending on the current situation. And you will need to revise the plan each time you increase your mobilization pool.

And you need to have a different plan for a war with France if they are allied to the Netherlands. Or if they are allied to Russia. And what if one of their allies dishonors the alliance? And so on and so on.

Having preset mobilization schemes for the AI would totally screw the AI countries as well. How could Paradox possibly program enough plans to take into account the different starting points for any war? For instance I have seen the war between the Netherlands and Belgium end with a white peace and I have seen the Netherlands take about six provinces from Belgium, including all of their border with Prussia. And that is the first year of the game! So will the AI Prussia only send troops to its 1836 border with the Netherlands any time the two countries have a war? Or will AI Belgium try to send troops to provinces it no longer controls because that is their pre set plan? Not to mention the fact that a player could exploit this system by figuring out exactly where the AI will always attack.

[valisk]

Originally Posted by Tel

It sounds like a good idea, and might be fun to do once or twice, but I think it would really be a micromanagement nightmare and wouldn't help out much.

Why? Because each war would be different. Say as Prussia in 1850 you set up a mobilization schedule for a war with Russia. But before the war starts, Russia beats Austria in a war and takes some Czech provinces, making your common border with Russia much longer. Then you have to go back in and redo the whole process.

Even if the plan you make up is still a good one when the war starts, it will only be useful for that one war. You'ree in the war, presumably, to take as much ground as possible. The border will be completely different when the next war rolls around. It makes a big difference as Prussia if my only border with France is Saarbrucken or if I've taken a bunch of their provinces already and have several border provinces. And once Prussia becomes Germany everything changes.

So basically you've just changed it from movement of troops on the map itself to movement of troops on some abstracted mobilization map. It's not going to save any time because you need to have a different set up for almost every war because the starting point will be different.

And of course since the AI can also declare war on you you need to have plans set up for wars against every country, which you will need to revise all the time depending on the current situation. And you will need to revise the plan each time you increase your mobilization pool.

And you need to have a different plan for a war with France if they are allied to the Netherlands. Or if they are allied to Russia. And what if one of their allies dishonors the alliance? And so on and so on.

Having preset mobilization schemes for the AI would totally screw the AI countries as well. How could Paradox possibly program enough plans to take into account the different starting points for any war? For instance I have seen the war between the Netherlands and Belgium end with a white peace and I have seen the Netherlands take about six provinces from Belgium, including all of their border with Prussia. And that is the first year of the game! So will the AI Prussia only send troops to its 1836 border with the Netherlands any time the two countries have a war? Or will AI Belgium try to send troops to provinces it no longer controls because that is their pre set plan? Not to mention the fact that a player could exploit this system by figuring out exactly where the AI will always attack.

Absolutely all those problems you mentioned applied to the nations like Germany which had mobilization plans, things could and did go wrong.

The problem that each war is different is something which could be solved by using the default plan, simply mobilize the troops and leave them in their mobilization district as is now.

The player could though, create his own library of plans, choosing which plan to use or not as circumstances dictated. The AI could also be directed to choose from a range of plans (to prevent figuring out of plans) or use default mobilization when war vs specified other nations became likely. Figuring out extra issues such as expanded national size is something which may have been fun, however it isn't going to happen, and sadly is moot.