Home Trending Latest threads New posts Developer diaries

Shadow of the Andes - An Interactive Chilean AAR

Jump to latest Follow Reply
  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Was it not ok to overthrow the King of Spain? Or Cesar Roseno? Or Badajoz? Under your logic, heroes such as Sebastian Carrow and Sebastian Roseno were/are scum.

Furthermore, I support the overthrow of tyrants, and a tyrant is what you are. You denied the people of Chile democracy, as they believed they were voting for a grand coalition but were then condescendingly scolded as if they behaved as bad children and you are their father, you have squashed freedom of speech as Sebastian Roseno did not support you (despite the fact that he actively criticized Severino and the Nacionales as well, you seem to forget that he was neutral, rather than on their side), and you seem to have gone insane and come to believe that this is the 17th century and that you are Louis XIV and that you are the state.

And as I said before, Severino never intended to do away with any of the cabinet members, the legislature, or the judiciary. Claiming that he or anyone else would remove them under the pretenses he used to arrest you is folly, and therefore should not be brought up lest you look like a fool with hearing problems.
 
Seek75 said:
Was it not ok to overthrow the King of Spain? Or Cesar Roseno? Or Badajoz? Under your logic, heroes such as Sebastian Carrow and Sebastian Roseno were/are scum.

Furthermore, I support the overthrow of tyrants, and a tyrant is what you are. You denied the people of Chile democracy, as they believed they were voting for a grand coalition but were then condescendingly scolded as if they behaved as bad children and you are their father, you have squashed freedom of speech as Sebastian Roseno did not support you (despite the fact that he actively criticized Severino and the Nacionales as well, you seem to forget that he was neutral, rather than on their side), and you seem to have gone insane and come to believe that this is the 17th century and that you are Louis XIV and that you are the state.
Click to expand...

Senor, that is outrageous and you know it. They were all tyrants while. despite your concerns, I was the legitimate president of a democratically elected government. I fought against all the other coups Senor for democracy and will always support it.
 
(Not sure I appreciate Badajoz being in the same sentence as Cesar Roseno. Unless of course the sentence is "Boy, Badajoz was right about a potential coup by the Conservadores, and that darn Cesar Roseno" ;-))

I forgot to say this when I sent my belated support for the government, but lets cheer for a second consecutive Liberale in office! This has not happened since the introduction of Democracy during the Badajoz victory over the Conservative government, let us all hope this is an omen of future freedoms for Chileans.

Chile para los chilenos!
 
rudders10 said:
Senor, that is outrageous and you know it. They were all tyrants while. despite your concerns, I was the legitimate president of a democratically elected government. I fought against all the other coups Senor for democracy and will always support it.
Click to expand...

Despite the fact that you campaigned for votes on the basis of a grand coalition, and then did not give the Chilean people what they voted for?

Enough of this. I will not argue with a man who believes himself to be God. Such is a pointless gesture that will only result in my frustration over a battle that isn't worth fighting.
 
Seek75 said:
Despite the fact that you campaigned for votes on the basis of a grand coalition, and then did not give the Chilean people what they voted for?

Enough of this. I will not argue with a man who believes himself to be God. Such is a pointless gesture that will only result in my frustration over a battle that isn't worth fighting.
Click to expand...

Amen to that.
 
Ivir Baggins said:
Amen to that.
Click to expand...

((I still find it ludicrous that Severino was not criticized more for his beahviour, his lies to gain the presidency, his threats that you would all vote communist to spite us etc.))
 
"Fellow Latin Americans, instead of being content by the rule of tyrants I beg you to take arms against the false movements of Liberalism, Socialism and Communism and beat them down. For too long these false ideas that are foreign to us have destroyed this great continent. Spread the word, form local movements to fight it, spread the loose network of Union Popular organizations. Do like the Argentinians, hang the Communists, don't let any of them live. Let's purify our beautiful Continent, and our beautiful countries. This is a crusade for justice."
 
zagoroth said:
(Not sure I appreciate Badajoz being in the same sentence as Cesar Roseno. Unless of course the sentence is "Boy, Badajoz was right about a potential coup by the Conservadores, and that darn Cesar Roseno" ;-))

I forgot to say this when I sent my belated support for the government, but lets cheer for a second consecutive Liberale in office! This has not happened since the introduction of Democracy during the Badajoz victory over the Conservative government, let us all hope this is an omen of future freedoms for Chileans.

Chile para los chilenos!
Click to expand...

((I still dont see how you keep putting Conservadores together with coups. So far Liberals and Reactionaries have made coups - not conservatives. Even though none agrees with this, I really want to know where you get this wierd idea from))
 
I am glad to see General Roseno has resigned. His behaviour during the attempted coup was scandalous. Abstaining is nearly the same as supporting the coup, even worse as it is the act of a coward who wants to see which way the wind blows. Roseno did the same under Cesar and it is no surprise he has divided loyalties. He did not do his duty to defend the nation and I was surprised El Presidente kept him as a General. I would have sacked him immediately. I would be happy to continue my role as a general if it is needed. I am worried of the large army being under one General.

General Pedro Rivera
 
atomicsoda said:
I am glad to see General Roseno has resigned. His behaviour during the attempted coup was scandalous. Abstaining is nearly the same as supporting the coup, even worse as it is the act of a coward who wants to see which way the wind blows. Roseno did the same under Cesar and it is no surprise he has divided loyalties. He did not do his duty to defend the nation and I was surprised El Presidente kept him as a General. I would have sacked him immediately. I would be happy to continue my role as a general if it is needed. I am worried of the large army being under one General.

General Pedro Rivera
Click to expand...

((TH said it is too late to reassign his armies or replace him.... I checked))
 
atomicsoda said:
I am glad to see General Roseno has resigned. His behaviour during the attempted coup was scandalous. Abstaining is nearly the same as supporting the coup, even worse as it is the act of a coward who wants to see which way the wind blows. Roseno did the same under Cesar and it is no surprise he has divided loyalties. He did not do his duty to defend the nation and I was surprised El Presidente kept him as a General. I would have sacked him immediately. I would be happy to continue my role as a general if it is needed. I am worried of the large army being under one General.

General Pedro Rivera
Click to expand...

You are the real coward here. You have no honor and shame every man who has ever served in the Chilean Army. I did my duty by abstaining, I did not choose any side and I would have never chosen a side. My loyalties are to Chile and Chile only, and do not split to anything else. You show your ignorance on a massive scale by assuming I waited to see which side would come on top, as I was in contact with Santa Rosa from the very moment I received command of the Army of the North to join the Republicanos. I was the first to declare my siding with the revolution, and thus did not wait to see if the "Empire" would fall. My loyalties are not and have never been divided, and I will always be the superior general when compared to you, as you will always be known as an ingnorant coward who will never have the respect of his men. I spit on you, your name, and I hope a sniper takes your life when the war begins, as that is the fate that befits bandits like you.

-Sebastian Roseno
 
Roseno,

You are a traitor and a truly disgusting individual. I hope you and your whole family die painful deaths. You can all burn together in hell. You have no honour and deserve a painful slow death. You actions and words show what a coward your are. I spit on your name and your family.


General Pedro Rivera
 
Andonie 1881-1883: A Sure Thing​
​
​
​

The election of 1881 might have been a sizable victory for Carlos Andonie, but if the President believed that this victory made him popular, he was sorely mistaken. Andonie's second term had something less than a fortuitous start as Valentin Severino attempted a civil coup against the President. Though unplanned and easily defeated, the so-called "Broken Promise" Coup had considerably more impact than anyone realized. One of Chile's top generals, Severino Miramontes, resigned in protest during the coup and a second, Sebastian Roseno (who Andonie had previously supported as a candidate for Army Chief of Staff) strongly voiced his exception to the President's breaking his word to the Nacionales. (Antonio De Santa Rosa also attempted to resign in the hopes of resolving the crisis rather than as a measure of protest.)

Following the coup's failure, Andonie reprimanded Roseno for his vocal opposition to the broken promise, demoting him to General of the Support Army. Roseno immediately resigned. The result was instant outcry across the country. Many still viewed Roseno as a hero of the last civil war and many others were still antagonized by Andonie's failure to include the Nacionales in government. One Nacional-aligned paper in Santiago published an editorial saying that, "to have taken such a destabilizing action on the eve of war with Argentina is nothing short of criminal irresponsibility; the seniormost general of the Republic sits in his rooms while a simpleton, a lapdog, and a gloryhound play at war on the border." The Conservative papers placed the blame more heavily on Roseno, one such paper remarking, "Roseno's resignation is nothing short of dereliction of duty and the controversy surrounding him entirely brought on himself."

Whatever the true cause and nature of Roseno's resignation, it could not be questioned that Andonie's new generals shared few common faces with the old one, with Roseno and Miramontes gone and De Vasces redeployed to the Canal Zone. Nevertheless, the Congreso went ahead with its declaration of war against Argentina - a war that Andonie had never wanted. The result was that at the start of the new year 1881, the Armies of the North, South, and Patagonia marched into Argentina, quickly occupying much of Tucuman and La Pampa. All three armies surrounded the Argentinian Army, a force of 14,000 battle-weary soldiers at Rosario. Zepeda and Hidalgo attacked the force in mid-March, and after a two-week battle suffered one of the worst defeats in Chilean military history, losing more than 30,000 men to a force half the size. Alvarez moved in not long after that and finally managed to defeat the stubborn Argentinian holdouts at the cost of another 7,000 Chilean lives, finally forcing the Argentinian Army's surrender on May 18. The occupation of Argentina lasted until December when (among various rebellions from reactionary, anarchist, and communist factions) the Argentinian government finally surrendered the provinces of Tucuman and La Pampa to Chile.

Brazil, unable to achieve an occupation of Santa Fe since Chile had already occupied the territory, was forced with withdraw from its own war and agree to white peace. Many observers speculated that anger over the Chilean disruption of the war are what caused Brazil to withdraw from the common market only a week later, though the foreign office assured the President that it was in fact French lobbying of the Brazilian government. The common market treaty was re-established in 1882, as was the also-broken alliance with Brazil.

The Chilean "victory" in Argentina was a victory in name only, as many more Chilean soldiers than Argentinians died in the course of the war, despite massive Chilean numerical superiority. Blame fell on different parties. Some blamed Roseno (though the army he was supposed to command, the Support Army, was largely theoretical at the time as most of the brigades that made it up had not yet been raised) while others claimed that Andonie and the military leadership were at fault. The war did achieve its ultimate objectives of driving the Argentinian Communist rebels out of the border provinces and destroy possible safe-havens for other powers, though rebels continued to hold provinces in Chaco and Jujuy until 1883.

The next several years were spent in a renewed military focus and effort on modernization, all the brigades the President had ordered finally being constituted on September 14, 1883. Antonio De Santa Rosa's belated resignation finally went through in the same year, his departing gift to the administration being a speech in the Congreso emphasizing the need for democracy and further reform in Chile. While Andonie, who many now called the most unpopular president in Chilean history, pondered a replacement general for Roseno and a replacement minister for De Santa Rosa, the Congreso pondered the possibility of additional reform.

-------------------------

News From Around the World:
May 18, 1881 - Argentinian Army destroyed
December 2, 1881 - Victory in Argentina
April 3, 1882 - Bell and Gray's Telephones
April 3, 1882 - Valley of the Kings in Austria
1883 - The Italian Liberation of Lombardia breaks out
April 3, 1883 - Persian Anarcho-Liberals Enforce
June 17, 1883 - Leaflet Campaign in Panama

Player Actions Needed:
Vote on your favorite reform: All Unions Allowed or Proportional Voting.

Sample Ballot:
All Unions Allowed/Proportional Voting

Andonie, you can also replace that missing minister and general now, or announce new plans for Chile or whatever it is you need to do. If anyone wants to introduce new bills now, that's also fine (but note that our education slider is already maxed).
 
"I am deeply saddened by Chile's choice to continue its oppression of the Argentinian people...Do they not deserve freedom just as much as anyone else?"

All Unions Allowed

-Comrade Armando Renin

((So, does this mean there are no more rebellions in Argentina?))
 
Seek75 said:
((Can I declare my agitation now? Or do I still have to wait?))
Click to expand...

You have to wait until the normal time, when the Presidential Candidates declare. You can start agitating and so forth IC now, but it won't have any in game effect until later.
 
All Unions Allowed

((Also, going to nitpick at TH: Casualties is not the same thing as deaths. You seem to have assumed that. Just saying.))
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back