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Hello again folks!

It's a new month and high time for another development diary. This time, let's talk about barons. In the original Crusader Kings, characters could only hold titles of three ranks; count, duke and king (though these could be called different things in different cultures). Barons existed indirectly in the form of provincial nobility, which, together with the clergy, peasants and burghers, had different power, loyalty and tax values. The player could fiddle around with the power values of the four classes, which would affect the tax rate and the composition of the provincial levy. As it turned out, this was one of the least successful features in the game, because the micromanagement was tedious and did not have enough impact to make it worthwhile. Therefore, in Crusader Kings II, the whole thing has been cut. Instead, each province will have between one and eight named settlements. A settlement is either a castle, city or church, and characters can hold the title to a settlement just like they can to counties and duchies.

Castles are regular feudal holdings, whose barons are normally in fief to the provincial count. Cities are commercial hubs governed by a mayor. Finally, church settlements are run by a Bishop (or Mufti, or similiar.) Like the four classes of Crusader Kings, the three types of settlement provide different types of troop levies and have different tax rates depending on laws. Unlike the class power of Crusader Kings, the rights of churches and cities - and the investiture of their leaders - should be interesting to play around with. (More on this in a later dev diary.)

Barony tier characters are not playable, mainly for performance reasons. (We do not want barons to have courts of their own, with the explosion of characters this would require.) They have a more rudimentary form of AI than playable characters, but will respond to diplomacy and might raise their army in revolt. Another measure to keep the character count down in Crusader Kings II is that you can have your vassals double as councillors (so there is less need for minor nobles to be created by the game).

What about the level of micromanagement - won't all these baronies require more player attention? Well, the whole point of the feudal system is delegation, so the short answer is that for dukes and above; not much. Granted, the dynamic around cities and churches will require more attention, but of the right kind and infrequently. The existence of baronies will also make playing counts a lot more interesting.

I don't have any baronial graphics in particular to show you, but here's a little something that Aerie is working on...

CK2_Diary002_01.png


That's all for now. Don't miss the next dev diary on December 2!


Henrik Fåhraeus, Associate Producer and CKII Project Lead
 
The number of settlements can change; players can build new ones and potentially existing ones can be razed (except for the county capital).

The type cannot change however.

So, neither the settlements nor the provinces* could ever be secularised (prince-bishopric (church) -> lay principality (castle)/free city (city)), be offered to the spiritual power (lay principality (castle) -> prince-bishopric (church)) or granted autonomy by charter (lay principality (castle) -> imperial city (city)).

*as capital settlement also determinate who control the county,


Am I wrong ?
 
This begs a followup question: if counts (and dukes) can be appointed as officers of the court to higher ranks of noble, does this mean that the mechanics exist for player counts might find themselves offered positions as Marshal or Chancellor to their liege lords? Might the Duke of Argyll have the opportunity to serve as Marshal of Scotland, for example, or are these positions for AI characters only?

Great question, as this was often the case in history. Like for example Prince Frederick who was Duke of York and commander and cheif of British Army.
 
This begs a followup question: if counts (and dukes) can be appointed as officers of the court to higher ranks of noble, does this mean that the mechanics exist for player counts might find themselves offered positions as Marshal or Chancellor to their liege lords? Might the Duke of Argyll have the opportunity to serve as Marshal of Scotland, for example, or are these positions for AI characters only?

This would be enormously cool, especially if we had offices like oh say 'Warden of the Cinque Ports'?
 
This would be enormously cool, especially if we had offices like oh say 'Warden of the Cinque Ports'?

The second coolest title any Englishman could aspire too, the lucky Duke of Wellington got both, he was Viceroy of Paris as well! Those sorts of cultural titles should be in, they have said they are doing cultural titles for the more important ranks, and different titles for the offices of state already exist in Vae Victis, just look at all the different types of tribal leaders...

The earlier historical digression was not really what i meant. If there are now say 1000 provinces there are 8000 settlements. If 1 in 8 settlements is a church we will need at least 1000 people with an eclesiastical education to fill them. In CK there was nowhere near this number of people.
 
I have ''The Question'', you said that baronies aren't playable, the question is, can we mod CKII to make them playable?
 
The number of settlements can change; players can build new ones and potentially existing ones can be razed (except for the county capital).

The type cannot change however.

I suppose one obvious question is, does this mean one can raze/pillage a specific settlement as a hostile invader?
 
This begs a followup question: if counts (and dukes) can be appointed as officers of the court to higher ranks of noble, does this mean that the mechanics exist for player counts might find themselves offered positions as Marshal or Chancellor to their liege lords? Might the Duke of Argyll have the opportunity to serve as Marshal of Scotland, for example, or are these positions for AI characters only?

Player characters can also be appointed to liege offices.
 
So, neither the settlements nor the provinces* could ever be secularised (prince-bishopric (church) -> lay principality (castle)/free city (city)), be offered to the spiritual power (lay principality (castle) -> prince-bishopric (church)) or granted autonomy by charter (lay principality (castle) -> imperial city (city)).

*as capital settlement also determinate who control the county,

Am I wrong ?

The capital settlement can change, thus changing the government type of the province/county.
 
I hope this isn't too stupid a question but here goes :

can a baron of a settlement in a given province owned by Count A pledge his allegiance to Count B... or is he entitled to keep his allegiance to the owner of the province he's in ?
 
Player characters can also be appointed to liege offices.

Intriguing. Giving some opportunity for intrigue no doubt (sorry :) ).
 
Does this change the provincial troop raising also from the provinces to the settlements, or will your troops still be raised like the old way?
 
So far, this thread has been nothing but good news. Hell, you could have duplicated CK exactly onto the new engine, and we would have bought it anyway. However, it looks like there are major changes, and so far every one has looked good. Keep up the good work. :)
 
If a great character is already appointed to an office of one of your Duke's, can you as the King override the Duke and take that great character for your own offices?

No, you cannot appoint vassals of vassals to your council.
 
As an aside Q:

Can you grant titles to anyone I want, regardless of where they are in the world, or who their leige is? Ie can I (as the King of Ireland) grant a county title to a mere courtier in the Kingdom of Poland. Or for that matter, can I grant Dukedom of Munster to the Count of Dublin, who is currently a vassal of Duke of Leinster, who in turn is my own vassal?

This is something that frustrated me most about CK:DV2.1beta. If one of my sons married a woman from a far off empire, who then went on to increase so greatly in skill that she became revered for her service to the court in the annals of my nations history, then I could do nothing to reward her family. Because most of the times, the family of your valuable court members will be residents in another land. And just as often they will have no land to their dynasties name.

I want to reward my people. If my Steward rises to level 30, I want to reward her. I want to do so by granting her father/brothers/sons lands in my own realm, so I can show my gratitude for the service this dynasty has provided to my realm.

Thanks.
 
I really like the Barons system, I'm eager to see the next devs diary (being able to build the settlements you want is really a good way to create immersion, and shape your demesne as you see fit).

I'm happy to see I was not the only one not bothering micromanaging the peasant, burghers, clergymen and nobles in CK ;).
 
Which brings me to the next point: gathering your army and your vassals was never as easy as it appears in CK1. In 1100, Feudal mechanisms of war and call to arms were still applyable. Even the arrière-ban, the right to call all subjects, nobles or not, to arms, in a defensive war, still worked. But in 1300, many kings must see how only 8-10% of his real "manpower" answers his call. And the king can really do nothing, unless he decides to go from castle to castle forcing the nobles to follow him, which would provoke a rebellion.
It was theoretically possible in CK 1, too, as low-loyalty characters would refuse call to arms. Of course, in practice you were hardly calling them to arms in first place since the penalties were big.

And it wasn't common occurence, because loyalty was a very fluid.*


*in the sense that they gravitated towards either 0 or 100, and not some number in the middle.
 
I note that Barons can hold offices and be a member of my court. I also note that barons can marry, either other characters or a "local girl" as Doomdark put it. Further, I note that if a baron does not hold a liege office, the baron will return to their castle, priest-hole or other accomodation they may have. That raises some dynastic and genealogical questions:

1) Doomdark states that a barons may marry "a local girl". Does that mean there will be no baronesses?

2) Presume that I marry my daughter to my marshal because he's a nice chap or has the right hair colour. The marshal is one of my barons. I lose interest in his martial skills and replace him with my son or some other character. Will he go back to his office and take my daughter with him, effectively removing her from my court?

3) Will barons appear in the family genealogy with their own ancestry, or will barons appear as persons without ancestors to boast of?

On a more general, genealogical and game management level, I further wonder:

4) Will there be family trees in the game, making it easier to hold an overview of hte dynasty?

5) if yes, will such family trees take into consideration the potential massive amount of inter-marriage in the game? (avoiding people to apprea twice in the family tree)

6) Will a character maintain a "history of titles" file or will all titles be erased from a character upon their death like in CK1? (This is very frustrating when you want to look into the family genealogy say 70 years ago when your great-great-grandfather was a measly baron who happened to marry the daughter of his liege, and their daugther was married to the Duke of X etc.)
 
4) Will there be family trees in the game, making it easier to hold an overview of the dynasty?

Yes, please! That would be incredibly helpful. Even if it's just for the player's dynasty. Sorely needed, imho.