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Capitalists or the Capital - which comes first?

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Victoria 2 17560 After Action Reports (AAR)
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But will the first-promoted Capitalist still be alive when the last-promoted Capitalist finally has made the contribution that finishes the factory? Not only has he been investing throughout the building process, he's also had to fund his Capitalist lifestyle, and all of this without any income during the time.

Also, while at Capitalists, have their spending patterns changed since V1? With Capitalists always first spending their money on consumer goods and only the remainder on investments, you had a situation where effectively the price of supporting a Capitalist's lifestyle was fixed, any extra money you'd give them would go directly to building factories and railroads, and it became (unrealistically enough) almost a no-brainer (and a very gamey one too) to tax them at 0%.
 
King said:
What happens is this, When the first Capitalists promotes, he picks a project to build. Sinks his money in and the goods start to be bought to build the factory. As more Capitalists promote they will continue to sink their money into the project. Once enough Capitalists appear enough money is raised and the factory is built. Now is the time to flip national focus to Crafstmen. As long as a factorty is being built the Craftsmen will hang around starve a little until the thing is finished. A bit odd I know, but it is better than the factory instanty shutting down once built because there is no one yet there to work in it.
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Wont the craftmen leave the country in the meantime?

And will there be alerts for emigrating POPs? In Vicky 1 I had a few bad surprises of POPs leavign whle my factorieswere built making them useless.
 
pingupower said:
Wont the craftmen leave the country in the meantime?

And will there be alerts for emigrating POPs? In Vicky 1 I had a few bad surprises of POPs leavign whle my factorieswere built making them useless.
Click to expand...

Presumeably they know a factory is being built and thus aren't in such a huge rush to emigrate/devolve, at least not faster than they're promoting.

See the France AAR on how there's a summary of all emigration sources&amounts.
 
KonradRichtmark said:
But will the first-promoted Capitalist still be alive when the last-promoted Capitalist finally has made the contribution that finishes the factory? Not only has he been investing throughout the building process, he's also had to fund his Capitalist lifestyle, and all of this without any income during the time.

Also, while at Capitalists, have their spending patterns changed since V1? With Capitalists always first spending their money on consumer goods and only the remainder on investments, you had a situation where effectively the price of supporting a Capitalist's lifestyle was fixed, any extra money you'd give them would go directly to building factories and railroads, and it became (unrealistically enough) almost a no-brainer (and a very gamey one too) to tax them at 0%.
Click to expand...

No, not for the first factory. Once they have one and are thinking about building another they first make sure they are alright.
 
pingupower said:
Wont the craftmen leave the country in the meantime?

And will there be alerts for emigrating POPs? In Vicky 1 I had a few bad surprises of POPs leavign whle my factorieswere built making them useless.
Click to expand...

No, read this post here.

King said:
What happens is this, When the first Capitalists promotes, he picks a project to build. Sinks his money in and the goods start to be bought to build the factory. As more Capitalists promote they will continue to sink their money into the project. Once enough Capitalists appear enough money is raised and the factory is built. Now is the time to flip national focus to Crafstmen. As long as a factorty is being built the Craftsmen will hang around starve a little until the thing is finished. A bit odd I know, but it is better than the factory instanty shutting down once built because there is no one yet there to work in it.
Click to expand...
 
King said:
No, not for the first factory. Once they have one and are thinking about building another they first make sure they are alright.
Click to expand...

Interesting... Does that mean that the game keeps track wich capitalist POP has share in which factory, so that there can be clear distinction when they build their first? Or is this true only when we talk about the very first factory in each state?
 
telesien said:
Interesting... Does that mean that the game keeps track wich capitalist POP has share in which factory, so that there can be clear distinction when they build their first? Or is this true only when we talk about the very first factory in each state?
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No all the capitalists in the state are conisdered to own all the factories in the state in one gaint socialist collective. Socialism, it's great for game mechanics.
 
So if I set the taxes for the rich at 0% they´ll consume more + build more factories instead of only build new ones right?

And how often are people from the upper class emmigrating into other states?

And if I set my taxes for the upper classes at 0 % my country should become more attractive for the upper classes and thus increase the upper class immigration, right?
 
GrafKeks said:
So if I set the taxes for the rich at 0% they´ll consume more + build more factories instead of only build new ones right?

And how often are people from the upper class emmigrating into other states?

And if I set my taxes for the upper classes at 0 % my country should become more attractive for the upper classes and thus increase the upper class immigration, right?
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They will only build if the current set of factories aren't too empty. People are always considered to be in motion. No matter how happy your people may be there are always those with a sense of adventure who will go elsewhere. Keeping them happy just slows it down. People don't look at taxes when deciding to emigrate.
 
Funnily, this is reminiscent of what economists term a "coordination problem".

In order for a country to modernize/industrialize, a set of conditions must be fulfilled, like educated workforce, infrastructure, production equipment etc. But if one link is not present, the investment made in e.g. education, is worthless, thus it is with great risk someone invests in education, when it is not ceratin his skills will be apprechiated...
 
King said:
Socialism, it's great for game mechanics.
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This just might have to become part of my sig someday . . . . One of your best lines, I think.

BTW, I think this is an entirely plausible mechanism for creating early industrialization. I've been reading about scaling up of artisanal workshops in the 18th c recently. Wrong century, I know, but it's the right idea!
 
King said:
They will only build if the current set of factories aren't too empty. People are always considered to be in motion. No matter how happy your people may be there are always those with a sense of adventure who will go elsewhere. Keeping them happy just slows it down. People don't look at taxes when deciding to emigrate.
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When will the caps recognise the factories to be too empty? When a lot of them are half-filled with workers?

So I only can slow down the emmigration process down via taxes.But if there are a lot of jobs available they´re more likely to emmigrate and thus the capitalists will build a new factory and it might lure more emmigrants in my country?
 
King said:
No all the capitalists in the state are conisdered to own all the factories in the state in one gaint socialist collective. Socialism, it's great for game mechanics.
Click to expand...

I'm perfectly happy with that. As long as decreasing profit margin for each one of them will push them to invest more (provided that their factories have enough workers to function properely) instead of just sitting on their asses and starving to artisan status :)
 
GrafKeks said:
When will the caps recognise the factories to be too empty? When a lot of them are half-filled with workers?

So I only can slow down the emmigration process down via taxes.But if there are a lot of jobs available they´re more likely to emmigrate and thus the capitalists will build a new factory and it might lure more emmigrants in my country?
Click to expand...

Basically they look at the factories in the state, if there is one without many workers they won't build another.

POPs check for jobs when deciding where to move. They also check for unemployment as well. Large numbers of unemployed of thier type convinces them to pick somewhere else.
 
telesien said:
I'm perfectly happy with that. As long as decreasing profit margin for each one of them will push them to invest more (provided that their factories have enough workers to function properely) instead of just sitting on their asses and starving to artisan status :)
Click to expand...

In LF, they will shut the factory and look to build another. Finally removing it to free up a slot. If you do not subsidise factories the same thing can happen.
 
KonradRichtmark said:
Also, while at Capitalists, have their spending patterns changed since V1? With Capitalists always first spending their money on consumer goods and only the remainder on investments, you had a situation where effectively the price of supporting a Capitalist's lifestyle was fixed, any extra money you'd give them would go directly to building factories and railroads, and it became (unrealistically enough) almost a no-brainer (and a very gamey one too) to tax them at 0%.
Click to expand...

This was largely true, except that you ended up spammed with every form of factory in every state very quickly. It was usually worth it to set rich taxes to 0 before you got a railway upgrade tech, let them handle it all, and then set their taxes to 20 or 30% which allowed you to run the economy well enough. But yes, the default setting for most industrializing nations in vic1 was unfortunately Tariffs at max and Rich Taxes at 0. I blame OHGamer for teaching me about this.
 
Vargas said:
How do you subside a factory?

How do capitalists makes money with a railroad?
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Click the box, subsidise factories.

Railways increase outputs for RGOs and Factories. So the Capuitalists will make more money.
 
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