What is Tactical Attack?

evilgenius748 · Aug 11, 2010

For air generals one of the Traits they can have is Superior Air Tactician which gives a ten percent bonus to Tactical Attack. What exactly is tactical attack? Does it apply to Air to Air Combat or Air to Ground or Both? I can't seem to find this any were in the manual.

Grand Poobah · Aug 11, 2010

Do you mean "Superior Tactician"? No "Superior Air Tactician" listed on the wiki

http://www.paradoxian.org/hoi3wiki/Leader_traits

Sarayakat · Aug 11, 2010

evilgenius748 said:
For air generals one of the Traits they can have is Superior Air Tactician which gives a ten percent bonus to Tactical Attack. What exactly is tactical attack? Does it apply to Air to Air Combat or Air to Ground or Both? I can't seem to find this any were in the manual.

When HOI first came out that trait carried no modifier. Somewhere around 1.3 they gave it the tactical attack bonus. I have seen several threads pondering what "tactical attack" is. I have, as yet, heard no definitive answer to your question. In hoi2 the trait gave a bonus to air to air combat. Since they gave the trait to the same generals in HOI3 as they did in HOI2, I have always assumed that the effect was similar. It would be cool if someone knows and posts though...

evilgenius748 · Aug 11, 2010

I just double checked in the game and the word air is in the name so I guess not. Its strange that Superior Air Tactician isn't listed on wiki though. Its also an air general's trait so the effects are probably not the same.

evilgenius748 · Aug 11, 2010

Sarayakat said:
In hoi2 the trait gave a bonus to air to air combat. Since they gave the trait to the same generals in HOI3 as they did in HOI2, I have always assumed that the effect was similar. It would be cool if someone knows and posts though...

I always assumed the same thing to but I never saw it actually effect anything. It makes sense though, if in HOI2 the stat worked that way.

unmerged(56084) · Aug 11, 2010

evilgenius748 said:
I just double checked in the game and the word air is in the name so I guess not. Its strange that Superior Air Tactician isn't listed on wiki though. Its also an air general's trait so the effects are probably not the same.

It is also skipped over in the rule book. As mentioned, in HOI1&2 it gave a bonus in air to air combat.

No idea · Aug 11, 2010

There was a thread about this one or two weeks ago. After some tests made by Slan it seemed that this trait gave no bonus at all. At least not one that was reflected in the combat modifiers.

safferli · Aug 11, 2010

The trait was added in a later patch, can't remember which one. There were two "superior tactician", one for navy and one for air. The air general had a navy "bonus", which was obviously wrong.

I can't recall the effect of superior air tactician. I think it's similar to the naval tactician that it does not give you a "measurable" bonus, but an increase in combat effectiveness nevertheless.

Grand Poobah · Aug 11, 2010

Would it reduce the stacking penalty for air units? It'd work similarly to the naval trait's positioning bonus that way.

Funkman3140 · Aug 12, 2010

in the traits.txt file we have these

Code:

tank_buster = { 
	defender_softness = 0.2
}

carpet_bomber = { 
	strategic_attack = 0.1
}

night_flyer = { 	
	night_attack = 0.1
}

fleet_destroyer = { 
	naval_attack = 0.1
}

superior_air_tactician = {
	tactical_attack = 0.1

so im going to suggest that tactical attack is increasing the attack of tactical bombers or just attacking land units in general

Recon1 · Aug 12, 2010

Tactical Attack

"What exactly is tactical attack?"

In simplest terms, tactical attack would be "blowing up" enemy units.

Strategic attack would be "starving enemy units" to death. In broader terms - strategic attack would also include starving the enemies ability to create new units, either by blowing up the factories or starving the factories of resources necessary for unit production.

Tactical attack is attacking combat units: infantry/tanks/artillery/destroyers-battleships.

Strategic attack is attacking enemy means to create or supply units:

Strategic attack on creating units would be an attack primarily at industry. although attacking infrastructure and resource convoys which supply industry is also arguably a strategic form of attack.

Strategic attack on means to supply units would be attack on infrastructure carrying supplies to front line units, and attacking supply convoys carrying supplies to enemy ports (which "feed" the combat forces supplied by the port)

Lastly, you could argue that encirclement is a form of strategic attack since its objective is to destroy enemy means to wage war (units) by the method of "starving" enemy units of fuel and supplies - as opposed to destroying the enemy units by "direct contact" forms of attack (tactical attacks) such as superior air/ground/naval attacks.

So a bonus to tactical air attack means greater force when hitting units.

A bonus to strategic air attack would mean greater force when hitting infrastructure - factories - ports - air fields etc.

evilgenius748 · Aug 12, 2010

DBynum1 said:
"What exactly is tactical attack?"

In simplest terms, tactical attack would be "blowing up" enemy units.

Strategic attack would be "starving enemy units" to death. In broader terms - strategic attack would also include starving the enemies ability to create new units, either by blowing up the factories or starving the factories of resources necessary for unit production.

Tactical attack is attacking combat units: infantry/tanks/artillery/destroyers-battleships.

Strategic attack is attacking enemy means to create or supply units:

Strategic attack on creating units would be an attack primarily at industry. although attacking infrastructure and resource convoys which supply industry is also arguably a strategic form of attack.

Strategic attack on means to supply units would be attack on infrastructure carrying supplies to front line units, and attacking supply convoys carrying supplies to enemy ports (which "feed" the combat forces supplied by the port)

Lastly, you could argue that encirclement is a form of strategic attack since its objective is to destroy enemy means to wage war (units) by the method of "starving" enemy units of fuel and supplies - as opposed to destroying the enemy units by "direct contact" forms of attack (tactical attacks) such as superior air/ground/naval attacks.

So a bonus to tactical air attack means greater force when hitting units.

A bonus to strategic air attack would mean greater force when hitting infrastructure - factories - ports - air fields etc.

This is why I wanted to know what the actual in game bonus is, because as you said, tactical attack could apply to both air to air and air to ground. However it seems that the trait really doesn't do anything based on other replies in this thread. Oh well, at least the Icon makes it seem like the general is better.....

TheBromgrev · Aug 12, 2010

Well, it at least looks better than the air commanders with the Super Tactician trait (10% naval positioning bonus). I've seen quite a few of those. You'd think PI would copy/paste their trait names instead of typing them out and risking a typo...

Dunbal · Aug 12, 2010

Grand Poobah said:
Do you mean "Superior Tactician"? No "Superior Air Tactician" listed on the wiki

http://www.paradoxian.org/hoi3wiki/Leader_traits

Er, I just checked the wiki you quoted. There is no "Superior Tactician" for air units there, but there is in the game. The Superior Tactician in the wiki is only for naval units, so the wiki actually doesn't help answer this question.

lpremus · Aug 12, 2010

if you guys have hoi2 pull up a tac bomber stats; there is a tactical attack stats. however this isn't in hoi3. in hoi2 there use to be soft, hard, tactical, strategic.

I know the HE111 had a tactical attack of 11.

my memory is a little gray on this since its been like 2 yrs since playing hoi2.

the tact stat helped with interdiction and logistical and runway bombing.

Search

What is Tactical Attack?

evilgenius748

Sergeant

Grand Poobah

Sergeant

Sarayakat

Citizen

evilgenius748

Sergeant

evilgenius748

Sergeant

unmerged(56084)

Field Marshal

No idea

Field Marshal

safferli

academic outlaw

Grand Poobah

Sergeant

Funkman3140

First Lieutenant

Recon1

Corporal

evilgenius748

Sergeant

TheBromgrev

Field Marshal

Dunbal

Colonel

lpremus

First Lieutenant