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Greybriar

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Feb 4, 2006
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I was getting ready to order Mount & Blade Warband from GoGamer (it's on sale for $16.90 U.S.) but when I checked its Customer Reviews at Amazon.com I learned that the retail boxed version installs Steam. Why is that? I don't want any 3rd party software installed on my PC.
 
I was getting ready to order Mount & Blade Warband from GoGamer (it's on sale for $16.90 U.S.) but when I checked its Customer Reviews at Amazon.com I learned that the retail boxed version installs Steam. Why is that? I don't want any 3rd party software installed on my PC.


It not paradox or taleworld that can answer you that for normal boxed version, gamersgate version (which is the same then taleworlds outside the download and install process) and taleworlds version don't use steam. But if there is a cdkey in the box you can simply use the taleworlds download then enter the CDkey in it (Taleworlds let's you download the full game from their website but until you enter the key you are in trial, so limited to level 7 max and no multiplayer, key comming from all source should work be it steam or a normal version)
 
I was also on this situation, with the exception that the information wasn't available anywhere until after I'd placed the order. So when Warband finally arrived I had to send it back to the vendor and ask for a refund because the product didn't match given description.

Also, the boxed version doesn not contain the real Warband CD key. It just contains a Steam key, and if you want your actual CD key which you thought you were buying you have to look it up in registry after installing the game with Steam, from what I heard.

In my opinion this is was a really bad decision by someone, made worse by the information really not being available anywhere. I'm sure Steam is working fine for some people, but there are lot of people who do not want to use it for various reasons and do not take kindly to this kind of force-feeding, especially since there's no reason whatsoever that the boxed version should be linked to Steam. Personally I feel it's stunts like these that drive people to piracy, not away from it.

Being a long-line M&B supporter I obviously bought another license directly from TaleWorlds to be able to play, but having to go all that crap with the retail version and ending up not getting the box on my shelf like I wanted really pissed me off for a while.
 
Had to leave my fancy of owning the box of game two years ago. Where I live that when PC game retailer started to suck in store (best place for boxed PC game is now Walmart, which should easily tell you how much it suck around where I live) and don't like to order stuff by delivery since in Canada delivery company are unable to give somewhat accurate delivery time (want a 2 hour range max, not miss my whole day at work cause delivery could happen anytime between 8am and 6pm)

So took habit to use online retailer fast. So don't really mind 3rd party program to run game now I admit, but I still prefer DRM free stuff I can actually burn on a disk for easy reinstall.
 
I was also on this situation, with the exception that the information wasn't available anywhere until after I'd placed the order. So when Warband finally arrived I had to send it back to the vendor and ask for a refund because the product didn't match given description.

Also, the boxed version doesn not contain the real Warband CD key. It just contains a Steam key, and if you want your actual CD key which you thought you were buying you have to look it up in registry after installing the game with Steam, from what I heard.
You could have been worse though. Like starting to play on the trial version and opening the box to get the code to activate the game to find out something is wrong. No return of game at this point.

The most important point. Should be made a sticky.

People interested in the retail version should be fully aware of them getting an access to steam services and not Talesworld services.

The steam key is five fields long and the Talewords key is four fields long.
Besides, Taleworlds services affords off line activation (even though you have to connect to generate a serial key corresponding with your PC hardware hash number)

To be complete, getting back the CD serial number is straightforward once the game is installed through Steam (check properties in MyGames folder->Warband)
 
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The Steam product activator requires a 25 character key. The retail box of Warband comes with a 24 character key. You have to contact support or guess the last character. Once you activate it though, you get a separate 4x4 key that you can use to activate your Steam version of Warband. Too much hassle i think.
 
most small companies are forced to stick with digital downloading. Paradox as a publisher and developer has gotten pretty good at the digital downloading scene and use mostly Gamersgate which is one of the few sellers that don't install programs on your computer.

If you don't mind having a download program but hate steam (I hate steam:D) you can try Direct 2 Drive or Impulse Driven.

As for the original complaint of getting the box version only to find no CD and being forced to DL the game from Steam... ya I'd be pissed too, and there is no way for anyone to defend that, cause it really is just a stupid thing to do.

In closing... no one like Steam, even people who say they like Steam hate Steam. It only still exists because big companies support it, small companies get bullied, and consumers don't realize their are better choices.
 
In closing... no one like Steam, even people who say they like Steam hate Steam. It only still exists because big companies support it, small companies get bullied, and consumers don't realize their are better choices.

Please refrain from Steam-bashing here.

You might not like it, and there might be other options, but you shouldn't start deciding other peoples feelings for them.
(I'm thinking about the "even people who say they like Steam hate Steam" bit)

Some people likes AoL, some people like Steam. As long as you appreciate what they are offering, Steam is a good service. Many dislike parts of the deal one has to agree with when using steam, though. But that is no reason to not be civil, right?
 
In closing... no one like Steam, even people who say they like Steam hate Steam. It only still exists because big companies support it, small companies get bullied, and consumers don't realize their are better choices.

I love Steam. I am a consumer and I have yet to see a better choice. D2D has an awkward system, if I get a game in the box there's always the risk of losing or breaking the DVD, not to mention putting the stupid disk in the drive. Steam is upfront, simple, elegant, the friend system makes it easy to keep track of people who you enjoy playing with, etc.

I never understand all the Steam-hate. Back when it first came out, yeah it was pretty clunky, but now I find it to be the best answer for all my gaming questions. I would be interested to see valid points from the community about what they don't like about Steam (" 'cause it's stupid" is not a valid point).
 
I love Steam. I am a consumer and I have yet to see a better choice. D2D has an awkward system, if I get a game in the box there's always the risk of losing or breaking the DVD, not to mention putting the stupid disk in the drive. Steam is upfront, simple, elegant, the friend system makes it easy to keep track of people who you enjoy playing with, etc.

I never understand all the Steam-hate. Back when it first came out, yeah it was pretty clunky, but now I find it to be the best answer for all my gaming questions. I would be interested to see valid points from the community about what they don't like about Steam (" 'cause it's stupid" is not a valid point).

You find D2D to be clunky? Really? While I think their website needs some added features their downloads are as easy as GG's.

Steam has a lot to offer and is a great service, but I'll never use them. I simply do not like the fact that they data mine computers. Nor do I like the fact that I have to run 'through' their service to play a game. I know there is 'offline mode', but I still don't like that idea. As far as I am concerned Steam is as bad as Ubisoft's DRM system, which was probably modeled off of Steam (just without the good stuff). Having said that, there are a lot of benefits to Steam and a lot of people like it, its just not for me. I'll continue to use GG and D2D.

One thing I do find humourous is Steam fans who hate DRM and when its pointed out that Steam is DRM, they get upset. :D
 
Thank you for your suggestion as to how to get the retail boxed version of Mount & Blade Warband up and running, iniudan. Thank you, Taalen, for sharing your experience. In short, thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.
 
The Steam product activator requires a 25 character key. The retail box of Warband comes with a 24 character key. You have to contact support or guess the last character. Once you activate it though, you get a separate 4x4 key that you can use to activate your Steam version of Warband. Too much hassle i think.

Either you were unlucky, either I was lucky because the retail box code I got was five fields long, five characters each.
 
Hi guys,

I'll try to answer some of your questions here:

1. Missing characters
For some reason some printed boxes seem to be missing a character. Highly unfortunate - I test installed some off the shelf here for instance and worked like a charm. As you'll see in other threads, Kallocain is working hard to solve the issues as they are reported.

2. Why Steam? Please note - you may or may not agree with this, I'm not posting this to persuade you either way. But since the Steam installer is not going to go away - you might be interested in knowing our thinking process:

- We don't micro manage everything our devs teams do. Taleworlds saw many advantages with the Steam installer and we agreed with them so the decision was made.

Other advantages we saw:
- It reduces lead times (print lead times are 6-8 weeks)
- Eliminates the need for physical discs
- Allows for flexibility in patching and automatic updates
- Reduces certain (potential) technical issues
- Testing of patches before going public

3. Could we have made it clearer that the Steam installer is included? Absolutely, currently the box has an information section about it but we'll look into how we can make it even clearer moving forward.

Kind regards
Susana Meza
 
Other advantages we saw:
- It reduces lead times (print lead times are 6-8 weeks)
- Eliminates the need for physical discs
- Allows for flexibility in patching and automatic updates
- Reduces certain (potential) technical issues
- Testing of patches before going public
I'm sorry, but this sounds like marketing blather. Let's take a look at the points:

- It reduces lead times (print lead times are 6-8 weeks)
- Eliminates the need for physical discs
So, you're selling a boxed version of the game (see amazon.com), citing the advantage of eliminating the need for a box? Huh? And you're still printing boxes, so you still have the lead time, or am I mistaken?

- Allows for flexibility in patching and automatic updates
Taleworlds has used patching since way before Steam, and there are other ways you could do this, isn't there? This is possibly the only valid point you have made here, in my view. Steam guarantees you that all users use the most up-to-date version possible. You might sell it as good for consumers, I see it as restricting my choices, but it's fully understandable.

- Reduces certain (potential) technical issues
- Testing of patches before going public
Again, this is sounds suspiciously like blather. "Reduced certain (potential) technical issues? The "(potential)" bit is the most glaring indication that this is marketing talk -- never admit to problems! :p Plus, completely ignore the fact that it creates new technical issues. Testing patches is also fully possible outside of Steam.

3. Could we have made it clearer that the Steam installer is included? Absolutely, currently the box has an information section about it but we'll look into how we can make it even clearer moving forward.
Yes please. This is very nice to hear. I wouldn't buy anything that needs me to connect to Steam, so knowing this beforehand is a must. Good to hear that you are learning from this experience! :)

Please note that I do not wish to "bash" Steam, I just have no intention of using them. Please also note that I do not wish to sound like a troll, but I am genuinely interested in your thoughts behind these steps.
 
Yes please. This is very nice to hear. I wouldn't buy anything that needs me to connect to Steam, so knowing this beforehand is a must. Good to hear that you are learning from this experience! :)

Please note that I do not wish to "bash" Steam, I just have no intention of using them. Please also note that I do not wish to sound like a troll, but I am genuinely interested in your thoughts behind these steps.

Great, now you know. And since there's plenty of other purchase options out there for Warband I guess you'll be making your choice accordingly. If you've already purchased the game, feel free to contact me via PM.

Susana
 
I'm pretty surprised to hear that Taleworlds made the decision about Steam since I'm used to thinking that the publisher usually makes all decisions of that nature. Though that might explain why the reply I got from Paradox to my complaint about Steam in the boxed edition was the they'll let TW know.

What makes it even more surprising is because some Taleworlds employees seemed to have absolutely no idea about the boxed version coming with Steam even some time after surprise.

Oh well, I just hope there were lessons learned. That, and obviously that in the future boxed editions come 100% Steam free.
 
In closing... no one like Steam, even people who say they like Steam hate Steam. It only still exists because big companies support it, small companies get bullied, and consumers don't realize their are better choices.
Really? So that's why I own 250 games on Steam? Who would have guessed something I hate would get so much usage from me.

So, you're selling a boxed version of the game (see amazon.com), citing the advantage of eliminating the need for a box? Huh?
Eliminating a need for a box merely means it now becomes optional. If you purchase a boxed version once activated you from then on can simply download it from Steam. If your copy is lost, scratched or anything of the sort you won't need to purchase another copy.

And you're still printing boxes, so you still have the lead time, or am I mistaken?
Reduces lead times =/= eliminates lead times

Taleworlds has used patching since way before Steam, and there are other ways you could do this, isn't there? This is possibly the only valid point you have made here, in my view. Steam guarantees you that all users use the most up-to-date version possible. You might sell it as good for consumers, I see it as restricting my choices, but it's fully understandable.
I believe it is possible to turn off automatic updates though I'd have to go home to verify. One doesn't check their settings much once it's been tailored to their tastes for years.

Again, this is sounds suspiciously like blather. "Reduced certain (potential) technical issues? The "(potential)" bit is the most glaring indication that this is marketing talk -- never admit to problems!
I read it differently from you in that she was acknowledging significant issues might exist but the true extent remains unseen.

Plus, completely ignore the fact that it creates new technical issues.
Ignore or determine as acceptable risks and to them are more easily dealt with? It sounds like you're implying they didn't give Steam itself any thought beyond what they thought is good and if that's the case I'm curious as to how you came about that information.
 
Hi guys,

3. Could we have made it clearer that the Steam installer is included? Absolutely, currently the box has an information section about it but we'll look into how we can make it even clearer moving forward.

Kind regards
Susana Meza

The comparison to a contract assurance was adequate. On the back, written in smaller letters.

Most importantly, the information piece should be given on online game saling sites.