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Werewolf CXII: Refugees

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Cakravarti said:
See the problem with this is we knew there was an infiltrator but didnt know who it was. When I joined the pack mid-way through drxav told me about OY and HC contacting Rysz. Kingepyon never shared with me his suspicions of OY before his death, despite his knowledge that drxav wanted someone in the pack to contact OY. Unfortunately drxav ended up contacting OY himself before being outed. He should have had one of the cultists do it instead. Once he was outed he also contacted HC. At this point we were suspicious of OY because of the outing but once it was revealed snoop was a witness we were lulled into a sense of security.

So off course it became a shock to me when we failed to reach parity despite having 7 members in the mega-pack (myself, davis, najs, walrus, OY, joeb, HC) in a 14 man village. It became clear that someone was the infiltrator but we didnt know whether it was OY or HC. Furthermore I was panicing at this point because Najs (despite my reservations) had clued HC onto our discussions and he knew our identities. At this point I stopped all communications with HC and only maintained comm with OY via Najs. OY didnt know the identity of the pack beyond Najs.

To make matters worse we had pissed all our sorcerous scans away. Najs was sleeping with drxav the night he used his scan (they hadnt figured out how the lover thing worked). Najs wasted his scan on OY(we were never 100% sure of him) since the sorcerous scan doesnt pick up sorcerors. And then walrus scanned Vainglory the night he was killed. At this point there was no way for us to verify either OY or HC.

And then came the fateful night when Euroo was turned. EURO was convinced OY was the sorceror and spilled everything to him. That was it.

We were going to hunt HC that night because EURO was convinced that HC was the infiltrator. But at the last minute I had a change of heart. I just wasnt convinced that it was definitely HC who was the impostor. I also read a pm EURO sent me about how the JL wanted Najs dead because he was intefering with their plans and remembered Najs had slept with the freeman the night before he was outed/run up. I guessed freeman was the seer and changed my orders appropriately.

Everything could have been so different if HC had just told me he was the 4th leader. At several points I was contemplating tieing the village up but didnt bother because AVN was leader and I knew he would just leader lynch us. Killing him seemed to be pointless since I assumed another in the village would assume the role of leader and ruin our ties/wins. I dont understand why HC never revealed this to me especially once TNT was dead.
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Ah, so you suspected hc rather than OY/joeb! I never considered that because symmetric setup would make it more likely that he was telling the truth. Also hc probably didn't give you die Gelbe's scan list since you wasted scans on the same people as they already scanned.

That the loving cultist blocked his own wolf master was amusing. He got the scan away later though, didn't he? It wasn't all a failure though since drxav didn't risk getting shot by the hunter since he never went out with the pack to hunt but instead stayed home in bed with his cultist. Cosy. :wub:

I was wondering where you did get theFreeman being blocked by a lover from. Was that a JL PM that OY let slip over to EURO?
 
Najs said:
Yes. Another failure to add to the list.

The night of my death I convinced Cakra to hunt EURO instead of Freeman (who was one of the last people on a handy list drxav made for us). I never bothered to hunt AVN, mostly because I did not realise what purpose it would serve. Heck, I even contacted him after he proclaimed the need for villagers with traits. I told him what was mostly truth (minus the cultist part) but he thought I was lying and told the village to kill me.

To make matters worse I suspected OY, but wishful thinking got in the way. I really wanted us to be a mere day from parity. All the clues that he was an infiltrator were there. Strange behaviour in PMs, avoiding certain matters, his "apprentice" being appearing to be completely unconnected, the set-up. I failed hard.
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Yea this played a part in my failure as well. If I had been thinking straight I wouldve thrown Najs under the bus the moment he was run up and seen what the village knew or didnt know. But I was so sure we were a day away from victory that I tried to save Najs, or atleast left it late to throw him under the bus. I would have attempted to save him had he followed my advice to finger Rockingluke as a baddie with some "analysis". But instead he chose AVN the leader. At that point I knew he was a goner since even if he lost the vote, AVN would just do a leaderlynch and get Najs.

Drxav's message that we were a day away from parity the night after TNT was killed also threw me off. It suggested that the infiltrator was only one person as opposed to two, which wouldve been the case if OY was the infiltrator since joeb's position in the pack was a his apprentice, and made me suspect HC over OY.

I also never bothered to hunt AVN because in addition to not knowing about HC being 4th leader, I felt AVN was making mistakes and the IJL were better served with him alive.
 
Cakravarti said:
I also never bothered to hunt AVN because in addition to not knowing about HC being 4th leader, I felt AVN was making mistakes and the IJL were better served with him alive.
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Which was actually a pretty smart move. Ever since the larger JL was formed, AVN had constantly been working against everything I said to do. It screwed up my dealings with the wolves almost every single day. Most insubordinate man I've ever played with. And he can't keep sensitive information quiet, either. Gah! Made me so frustrated.
 
johho888 said:
Ah, so you suspected hc rather than OY/joeb! I never considered that because symmetric setup would make it more likely that he was telling the truth. Also hc probably didn't give you die Gelbe's scan list since you wasted scans on the same people as they already scanned.

That the loving cultist blocked his own wolf master was amusing. He got the scan away later though, didn't he? It wasn't all a failure though since drxav didn't risk getting shot by the hunter since he never went out with the pack to hunt but instead stayed home in bed with his cultist. Cosy. :wub:

I was wondering where you did get theFreeman being blocked by a lover from. Was that a JL PM that OY let slip over to EURO?
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AVN sent Euro a pm, before he was turned that they wanted to get Najs because he was blocking their scans. I knew the night before Najs was run up that he slept with The Freeman and put 2 and 2 together.
 
OrangeYoshi said:
Which was actually a pretty smart move. Ever since the larger JL was formed, AVN had constantly been working against everything I said to do. It screwed up my dealings with the wolves almost every single day. Most insubordinate man I've ever played with. And he can't keep sensitive information quiet, either. Gah! Made me so frustrated.
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We try our best. We enjoy adding to your frustrations.

EDIT: I was correct about the wolf setup, I see. I should have read the hunter role closer. It has happened in a few other games that the hunter survives if he kills a wolf. I just didn't see it. And the Rote pack found 3 cursed? Euro, Davis, and Cakravarti?

What happened Kaetje's last night?
 
OrangeYoshi said:
Game could've been over two nights ago if AVN had just listened to me about snoopdogg outing drxav.
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how? Someone (maybe snoop being the mouthpiece) would have been hunted, snoopdogg would have to wait several nights to use the witness trait, drxav would have been dead from the outing....

seems like the same result.
 
OrangeYoshi said:
Ah. You see, that is wrong. Because Najs committed the fatal error here. EURO is simply the one who separated the wolves from the cultists.



THAT was what ended the game. I knew the identity of AVN, sed, trespoe, myself, freeman, and joeb. I knew the identity of Najs. He also told me there were exactly 4 other baddies besides himself. Well, this PM, telling me that Rockingluke and boris were not baddies, narrowed the list of possible baddies down to 5. EURO was on that list. I grilled EURO, telling him I was the sorc and convinced him that I thought he was a cultist. His behavior convinced me that he was a villager. So now I was 4-for-4 on the baddie names. I knew the entire pack 2 days ago. All EURO did when he got turned was tell me which ones were the wolves.

The fact that I was put in contact with the seer on Day 3 is what made all these shenanigans possible. When Rysz told me joeb was an apprentice, I was able to get the seer to scan him and claim him. When a lover slept with the seer, I was able to tell people a lover slept with me.

Curiously enough, a lover sleeping with the seer is what initially made us think Najs was a baddie. We were going to trust him until he claimed lover. I knew who the lover had been sleeping with the previous night, as well as the night 2 nights before that, so I had AVN ask him for his "sleep list". When he said it had been set to drxav or davis all game... that's when we knew he was a lying baddie.

And johho, yes, while the wolves could've used 4th in Command HC, I had been successful in convincing them that HC was the infiltrator. First, they didn't trust him. Second, they weren't talking to him. Third, I bet they didn't even know he was 4th in Command. Fifth, it seems they entirely forgot AVN was 2nd in Command! The ideas their pack was getting seemed like they thought they could control lynches with AVN still alive (see above PM).
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I didn't really bring my brain this game, I can tell you that much. When AVN asked me who I slept with I just said drxav, which was mostly true. I couldn't even remember that I slept with Freeman. Then I got a PM from AVN where he accused me of lying, saying I slept with you. That made me believe you had infiltrated the JL and had told them you were a priest or something. The fail was strong in me this time.
 
trespoe said:
What happened Kaetje's last night?
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She wanted to eat the snoopdogg2 the witness but he survived because Vainglory really, really liked Kaetje... :wub:

Which in the end led to drxav being spotted by the witness.
 
Cakravarti said:
Yea this played a part in my failure as well. If I had been thinking straight I wouldve thrown Najs under the bus the moment he was run up and seen what the village knew or didnt know. But I was so sure we were a day away from victory that I tried to save Najs, or atleast left it late to throw him under the bus. I would have attempted to save him had he followed my advice to finger Rockingluke as a baddie with some "analysis". But instead he chose AVN the leader. At that point I knew he was a goner since even if he lost the vote, AVN would just do a leaderlynch and get Najs.

Drxav's message that we were a day away from parity the night after TNT was killed also threw me off. It suggested that the infiltrator was only one person as opposed to two, which wouldve been the case if OY was the infiltrator since joeb's position in the pack was a his apprentice, and made me suspect HC over OY.

I also never bothered to hunt AVN because in addition to not knowing about HC being 4th leader, I felt AVN was making mistakes and the IJL were better served with him alive.
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That plan failed the moment it began. I couldn't possibly try to blame someone else at that stage, it would just have me killed anyway. The JL was set on me. So I did the most drastic thing I could think of and accused AVN. Had I remembered that he was a leader I wouldn't even have bothered, but of course then my end would have been rather boring.

And I used my lover ability on drxav because I misread the description and thought it somehow blocked scans.
 
OrangeYoshi said:
Ah. You see, that is wrong. Because Najs committed the fatal error here. EURO is simply the one who separated the wolves from the cultists.



THAT was what ended the game. I knew the identity of AVN, sed, trespoe, myself, freeman, and joeb. I knew the identity of Najs. He also told me there were exactly 4 other baddies besides himself. Well, this PM, telling me that Rockingluke and boris were not baddies, narrowed the list of possible baddies down to 5. EURO was on that list. I grilled EURO, telling him I was the sorc and convinced him that I thought he was a cultist. His behavior convinced me that he was a villager. So now I was 4-for-4 on the baddie names. I knew the entire pack 2 days ago. All EURO did when he got turned was tell me which ones were the wolves.

The fact that I was put in contact with the seer on Day 3 is what made all these shenanigans possible. When Rysz told me joeb was an apprentice, I was able to get the seer to scan him and claim him. When a lover slept with the seer, I was able to tell people a lover slept with me.

Curiously enough, a lover sleeping with the seer is what initially made us think Najs was a baddie. We were going to trust him until he claimed lover. I knew who the lover had been sleeping with the previous night, as well as the night 2 nights before that, so I had AVN ask him for his "sleep list". When he said it had been set to drxav or davis all game... that's when we knew he was a lying baddie.

And johho, yes, while the wolves could've used 4th in Command HC, I had been successful in convincing them that HC was the infiltrator. First, they didn't trust him. Second, they weren't talking to him. Third, I bet they didn't even know he was 4th in Command. Fifth, it seems they entirely forgot AVN was 2nd in Command! The ideas their pack was getting seemed like they thought they could control lynches with AVN still alive (see above PM).
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I was pissed off with Najs for sending you that PM. At that point I think I had told him not to communicate with you or HC or atleast not give you any info you could work with. I was unhappy with him suggesting that we were 7 strong(well 6 in reality but you get the idea) since I didnt want the village to know how close we were to parity, as I felt it would enable us to sneak a lynch without AVN using his leader trait. But even I didnt foresee how you would be able to use the rest of the info there to figure out the identity of the pack. Clearly this was another mistake fueled by Najs thirst and anticipation for victory.

I was well aware of AVN being 2nd in command. I was hoping to get one lynch past him by targeting someone else with 'analysis', since it seemed we were so close to victory. In fact earlier that day I wrote a pm to Najs outlining why we should target Rockingluke instead of AVN, clearly mentioning AVN was leader now, but he seems to have forgotten and gone after AVN when the time came. That was when I realised it was over for him and voted him in the hopes that I would throw suspicions off me.

Also we were talking to HC at one point, but he didnt see fit to mention that he was leader no 4.
 
trespoe said:
how? Someone (maybe snoop being the mouthpiece) would have been hunted, snoopdogg would have to wait several nights to use the witness trait, drxav would have been dead from the outing....

seems like the same result.
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drxav suspected me only after he got outed by the JL on the same day we started talking. I could've been an even more trusted member of the pack had we avoided that.
 
It seems to be that the whole baddie side of things got out of hand when people started to do whatever they wanted, and started to give out more information than they needed.

Too bad they weren't a bit more organized.
 
Cakravarti said:
But even I didnt foresee how you would be able to use the rest of the info there to figure out the identity of the pack.
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For giggles, this is how that worked out:

Knowns:

Yoshi - SA villager
joeb - Seer's apprentice
theFreeman - seer

AVN - guy who's been working with the JL
sed - working with AVN
trespoe - working with AVN

Najs - cultist

Leaving me with the following list of unknown who were cleared by Najs or my own investigation:

boris - cleared by Najs's PM
Rockingluke - cleared by Najs's PM
EURO - cleared through discussion on MSN


Leaving me with the following who had to have been the baddies since Najs told me there were 4 others:

Cak
walrus
Davis
clarice
 
Kingepyon said:
It seems to be that the whole baddie side of things got out of hand when people started to do whatever they wanted, and started to give out more information than they needed.

Too bad they weren't a bit more organized.
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Well, at least I told my pack I was a lover and had a scan. It would have been helpful to know that HC was 4th leader.
 
Najs said:
That plan failed the moment it began. I couldn't possibly try to blame someone else at that stage, it would just have me killed anyway. The JL was set on me. So I did the most drastic thing I could think of and accused AVN. Had I remembered that he was a leader I wouldn't even have bothered, but of course then my end would have been rather boring.

And I used my lover ability on drxav because I misread the description and thought it somehow blocked scans.
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The JL were set on you but we might have gotten some non-JL goodies to vote for us. Especially if the 'analysis' was convincing. And the 'analysis' I outlined in a previous pm to you was pretty decent. Either way it doesnt matter. This whole thing was lost by HC not telling us he was 4th leader.

It is such a crucial piece of information, especially once TNT died. He could have mentioned it once Najs started including him in our pms. Or even once we stopped communicating with him in the aftermath of TNT's death, when his trait could have turned everything around for us in spite of the infiltration. Instead all he did was send a suspicious pm to me telling me to tell me what happened the night EURO was hunted. Really poor from him imo. If I had this crucial piece of info in my hand...
 
OrangeYoshi said:
drxav suspected me only after he got outed by the JL on the same day we started talking. I could've been an even more trusted member of the pack had we avoided that.
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This is certainly true.
 
Najs said:
Well, at least I told my pack I was a lover and had a scan. It would have been helpful to know that HC was 4th leader.
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You must've told them that after I died, because I had no idea. And it would have been helpful to know that.

To be honest the packs got screwed up in the beginning with esemesas dying almost instantly and Comm Cody giving us bad information about his own cultist, and then subbing out so we never really had an idea what was going on.

It took the GM and a mistake or two before I had everyone who was in my pack memorized with their traits, or at least the traits I was given. And then things got silly again when all my hunt orders were blatantly ignored and changed without any discussion on the matter.

And then rysz tried to get us in contact with people, and instead of playing it safe and testing people, they just started to give out information freely.

There was a lot of information being withheld from the right people and a lot of information being told to the wrong people.
 
Cakravarti said:
The JL were set on you but we might have gotten some non-JL goodies to vote for us. Especially if the 'analysis' was convincing. And the 'analysis' I outlined in a previous pm to you was pretty decent. Either way it doesnt matter. This whole thing was lost by HC not telling us he was 4th leader.

It is such a crucial piece of information, especially once TNT died. He could have mentioned it once Najs started including him in our pms. Or even once we stopped communicating with him in the aftermath of TNT's death, when his trait could have turned everything around for us in spite of the infiltration. Instead all he did was send a suspicious pm to me telling me to tell me what happened the night EURO was hunted. Really poor from him imo. If I had this crucial piece of info in my hand...
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Had we known that HC was 4th leader I would have asked you to hunt AVN days ago. Instead we hunted our way around a suspicion list, which did get us a double kill...

And I did get Boris to follow my outing for a while there. :p
 
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