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Werewolf CXII: Refugees

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EUROO7 said:
What does this new cultist role consist of?
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This seems to be it.
randakar said:
Cylon Symphatizer (cultist): These humans have decided to side with the Cylon menace for one reason or other; Either believing that the only way for humanity to survive is as fallow slaves to their new robotic masters, or for reasons of simple greed or lust for power.

Cultists come in two flavors; Attached or unattached.

Unattached cultists can only win the game if they attach themselves to a pack and fulfill the criteria for an attached cultist to win; In order to attach themselves to a pack, at least one member of the pack needs to recieve a PM from said cultist stating the cultists' desire to attach themselves to the pack, with the GM clearly designated as a second recipient to said PM. Upon the next deadline the GM will confirm the attachment to the pack in a PM detailing the new pack composition to all players involved.

Abuse of this rule by sending mass PM's to players will be frowned upon and may result in instant death by random lightning strike, nuclear explosion, or somebody leaving the airlock open at a really unopportune time.

Attached cultists count as wolves in every respect save one; They count for parity, and can send hunt orders for the pack. They win the game when the entire wolf pack wins. Attached cultists that are attached at the start of the game will know every other pack member, as a regular wolf would. An attached cultist can not attach themselves to a different pack after they have become attached to one pack. Switching sides is not an option.
However, an attached cultist does not count as a wolf for the purpose of scan results; See the various scanning roles for more details.
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I'm sorry but I never liked the "must be incontact" part because of the ways it can be abused and also I think your rules makes the cultist too much like just another wolf.

I know some GMs (EURO?) have cultists with scanning powers (and sorcerers with protection powers) if you want variety in cultist rules but I prefer the old rules with the possibility to pile traits on them if I think the cultists becomes to boring or the baddie side needs something extra for balance. OTOH cultists are the baddie villagers so they are supposed to make the game interesting themselves, not by having the GM fix the game for them.
 
Agree with johho.
 
Just throw traits at cultists. Too often people expect traits=goodies 75% of the time. Load up cultists to help break people of that thought.
 
I think the problem is, players who get the cultist role don't know what to do with it. They are told they have a master, but are almost never included in the pack discussions. So they just sit idly waiting for orders from a master which may not ever come. They have to find their way to make the game interesting for themselves.

I also think the wolf should not know the identity of their cultist. It opens up possibilities for villagers to play the cultist early in the game. :D
 
So what you are saying is the problem is people are idiots? :p
 
johho have you invited dublish?
 
johho888 said:
This seems to be it.

I'm sorry but I never liked the "must be incontact" part because of the ways it can be abused and also I think your rules makes the cultist too much like just another wolf.
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The latter part is intentional. White Daimon really has a point that paranoia amongst baddies is a bad thing. As written the cultist role does exactly that, create paranoia in a side that shouldn't have to be paranoid about their own team members.
As for the former - how can it be abused?

johho888 said:
I know some GMs (EURO?) have cultists with scanning powers (and sorcerers with protection powers) if you want variety in cultist rules but I prefer the old rules with the possibility to pile traits on them if I think the cultists becomes to boring or the baddie side needs something extra for balance. OTOH cultists are the baddie villagers so they are supposed to make the game interesting themselves, not by having the GM fix the game for them.
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Yeah, "interesting" indeed. I can attest to how that "interesting" game ends up going.


EUROO7 said:
I think the problem is, players who get the cultist role don't know what to do with it. They are told they have a master, but are almost never included in the pack discussions. So they just sit idly waiting for orders from a master which may not ever come. They have to find their way to make the game interesting for themselves.

I also think the wolf should not know the identity of their cultist. It opens up possibilities for villagers to play the cultist early in the game. :D
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And you think cultists not being told squat about or by their own pack is a good thing?
Sorry, but I just can't agree. I've never seen that role work out in a way that is actually fun for the player involved. Have you?
 
EUROO7 said:
How are the kids?
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Well, Mary and Laura have made some friends at school already. Though Laura got into a fight with another girl at school. Carrie's getting used to the new environment. She likes feeding the chickens.
 
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randakar said:
And you think cultists not being told squat about or by their own pack is a good thing?
Sorry, but I just can't agree. I've never seen that role work out in a way that is actually fun for the player involved. Have you?
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The only time I had fun with the cultist role was when cultist were told their masters, but the wolves were not told about their cultists. I was AOK's cultist, but instead of telling him which would mean he would sacrifice me to look good for the village, I just followed him through all his voting antics and didn't contact him until very near the end of the game.
 
randakar said:
The latter part is intentional. White Daimon really has a point that paranoia amongst baddies is a bad thing. As written the cultist role does exactly that, create paranoia in a side that shouldn't have to be paranoid about their own team members.
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Cultist knows wolf, wolf knows cultist. Where is the paranoia? I have yet to see a cultist abondon his pack before it gets wiped out. There is such a thing as baddie honour, isn't there?

randakar said:
As for the former - how can it be abused?
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After discussion in the General Werewolf thread about how "in contact" made sense because how would packs otherwise know when they could rise up and overwhelm the village I used that in the last game I hosted. Midgame one of the packs found out about a cultist (or if it was the cultist that found out about the pack?), they didn't have a scan result or even a PM contact but they told me they were "in contact" and could the cultist count for parity? So what was I supposed to do? Say nothing? Confirm that he was a cultist? Tell the cultist about the wolves? all of them? one? the pack name only? And what if they had guessed wrong? Should I tell them the "cultist" wasn't a cultist? Maybe it was a clever villager that tried to infiltrate?

To go to the other extreme and make cultist and sorcerers pack specific risk having players alive with no chance of winning and that too can get "interesting" but seldom makes for good game play.

randakar said:
And you think cultists not being told squat about or by their own pack is a good thing?
Sorry, but I just can't agree. I've never seen that role work out in a way that is actually fun for the player involved. Have you?
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The most fun I ever had in a werewolf game was as a SA cultist in Warthogs, having one of my wolf masters infiltrating the seer's circle posing as a priest based on a seer scan I detected and then trying to eat the JL before we were discovered. IIRC there were 3 packs so we didn't hunt as often as we would have liked.

In another game as a cultist I got into the JL because an inverted scanner didn't understand the false scan result rules and I ended up selling out my pack, the other pack and the JL. That was maybe more "interesting" or intense and nerve recking than fun.

I really think you can have fun with almost every role if you just put enough effort into the game and have a bit of luck.
 
IN as Pangloss the Cheery Westphalian Refugee...

...if there is space, otherwise, SUB please
 
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