Sheridan's France Strategy

[Sheridan]

Just wanted to share my usual strategies for 1419 scenario...

First, DP settings - early on I focus on innovativeness (one or two clicks - not too much as you will want colonies later) and free trade (again for colonies). After you have diploannexed your starting vassal states, THEN push centralization. After 1500 or so, you want to go a little more narrowminded (missionaries and colonists) and free trade (colonists). Don't mess around with land/naval for colonists - you will want this one near the middle or slightly to land for other reasons.

At first, set all income to infrastructure, so you can get tax collectors ASAP. Once you have the tech for that go treasury until war ends and you have TC's up everywhere; then go land and/or naval. After the first war and TC's are complete, you should be able to lock treasury slider at zero permanently unless you get in a particularly fierce war. France can generally run annual operations - except in times of major wars - off of its annual January lump-sum income. This means that you can keep inflation very tightly under control, ideally below 10%.

In the first war (vs England, Burgundy, Brittany, any allies they may bring), use your southern army to siege Franche Comte and then Bourgogne, while sending your northern army into Artois, Flanders, Zeeland. Temporarily ignore any invasions of your own territory, unless the siege leader is Burgundy. Force Burgundy into a seperate peace which gives you Franche Comte, Artois and possibly some cash. DO NOT take Flanders; it's an economic sinkhole.

Then deal with any other English allies (they often bring in Aragon or Navarra, which means you can take Rousillon or Bearn from them now) and occupy but do not sign a treaty with Brittany. Then take all English-held territory on the mainland; you may be able (with Brittany also fully occupied) to get the English to offer you a peace treaty ceding all of their continental possessions (this is ideal).

After the first war, consolidate your forces and get your economy in order (TC's, etc.) and pay off any loans you were forced into during the war. Bribe your vassals up and diploannex them. If you catch Brittany without allies, and they've broken their vassalage to England, go in and either forcevassal them or bribe them into your alliance. Same for Lorraine, Strassburg and Savoie.

Ideally, a single war will be possible against both Aragon and Navarra at this point (roughly 1440-50), or else Navarra will lose Bearn to either Aragon or Castile. But it's not time for that yet if the opportunity is not extremely tempting. In any case, you should plan on securing and fortifying your southern border, EXACTLY at the limit of your CB provinces, by 1475. This will prevent Spain (with its very nice leaders) from trying to invade you.

Crash land tech to level 5 (for assault); this should come around 1460. England has some civil war trouble then so use that to take any remaining territory they have in your cores (you may need ships for this; at this point, build galleys and collect them in Normandie or Calais. When England only has one or two provinces on the mainland, you have to invade England to get enough warscore to grab them).

Once you have land tech 5, launch a series of blitz wars using large infantry forces to grab any remaining core provinces you don't own or have vassalized. If Savoie has lost its Italian province, take its French one for yourself.

Using this strategy, by roughly 1480 you should possess all of the French culture provinces as well as all of your core provinces. Then you should crash naval research toward level 11; if you can get that prior to 1519 you are all set. This is not a strategy for large-scale conquest within Europe. Once this goal is reached you should be able to stay out of major wars in Europe until around 1675, when you can get more cores by event. In the meantime, focus on colonization. Spain and Austria make good alliance partners in this period, if you do not mind being dragged into long meaningless wars. Additionally, nobody will mess with you if you are allied with these two powers.

Around 1519 you want to build a shipyard; best places are Gascogne and Normandie, unless you've had a lot of + tax value events on a single coastal province, in which case it may be better. *DO NOT*, no matter how tempting, build it in Provence.

Using your explorers (first one comes in 1522) chart as much of coastal North America as possible, focusing on the Canadian area. Stadacone province is your best inroad to the continent, and Isle Royale makes a great naval base for exploring. Don't bother with the Caribbean islands; no matter how rich they are, you'll have to be very eagle-eyed about Spain trying to take them under the TOT.

When you finally get a conquistador (Ribaut, 1562 I think) you need to move him out of continental France ASAP, as there's a major revolt event very close to then and he will get killed if you don't. Ship him over to North America and use with cavalry for speedy exploration. If you're really fast you can explore all of Canada and either the American east coast or the Mississippi Valley (don't try for all three.)

Other than North America (which you should take as much of as possible), best sites for colonies are islands outside the Caribbean (not subject to the TOT; this includes St Helena, Bourbon, Mauritius, Tahiti, etc.) as naval bases, and South Africa, Australia, New Zealand as extensive colony sites. Eastern Siberia and western North America can also be very profitable.

As far as the reformation - stay Catholic (it's much easier than going reformed, provincewise) and be very quick about using missionaries in mainland France to return provinces to Catholicism.

[Szordrin]

Why is Flandern a bad province for France? The rest is very solid strategy.

IF you don't plan on expanding in Europe, reformed is an OK option! IF you want to disable England, try making Scotland doing it for you (with french soldiers that is) by keeping am english held french province for the CB! Same goes for Spain, but it's more triky (use Aragon or Navarra).

[Sheridan]

Prior to the reformation Flanders can be good, but in the long term (esp. after going reformed) it becomes an economic dead weight and very susceptible to revolts. Also it's a Dutch core province once they form, which will drag you into wars with them.

As for going Reformed - I see it like this. Only about a third of your mainland provinces become reformed automatically. Most of these are relatively low-population provinces. It's simply easier to convert them back to Catholic than to go Reformed and convert your (bigger, costlier, and more numerous) Catholic provinces. Additionally, any colonies you already have by that point will also be Catholic, which tips the scales even further that way. And the extras benefit is that by staying Catholic, you can hop over to CRC temporarily and get a free CB against any protestant country, which can be very handy if England has a colony you want.

Also, the strategy above wasn't meant to disable England or Spain, just to reclaim all French cores/matching-culture provinces and then go colonial. If you really want to cripple England and/or Spain, it's sometimes possible to forcevassal them fairly easily around 1500.

As far as the Caribbean provinces are concerned, yes, they're good, but a lot of North America is just as good and the Spanish have no claim to them. England is in a bit different situation regarding them as the TOT doesn't apply to protestants, so let England and Spain argue over them while you gobble up North America. Specifically the provinces in the Chesapeake area are just as rich as any of the islands. And you shouldn't need the islands as a naval base; if you can get military access out of either Spain or Portugal (not hard if you're nice in Europe) you can use Lisbon or Andalusia as a naval stopover point and leapfrog straight to St Helena from there. Or set up one colony in West Africa (perferably one of the ivory ones) to serve similar purpose, and use that to leap to St Helena.

As you can see, to me St Helena is worth fighting a war over; once it's colonized and fortified nobody generally messes with it and it's a great waypoint to either the Indian or Pacific oceans (via Falklands and/or Tahiti or South Africa to Madagascar or Bourbon/Mauritius or even Mahe)

[ruskii]

Sheridan arent you afraid of having your colonial possesions spread to far all over the globe. With N.America, Carribean, Africa, St Helena. Wouldnt you be prone to invasion

[Sheridan]

Not really, because:

a) I only play SP (due to connection issues) and the AI doesn't do a lot of that.

b) I tend to build the colonies in large groups, where they can share defensive armies. Other than islands used as naval waypoints (and I tend to have maybe half a dozen of those) I usually won't go into an area where I can't get at least five provinces together.

c) If you'll note my strategy, I actually said to AVOID the Caribbean. Partly, this was because those tend to be the most hotly contested.

d) Since my strategy is to gain all planned European territories very early, you don't tend to find yourself in many wars at all, and the ones you do are usually against much smaller 'minor powers' that you are trying to conquer. They usually cannot stage invasions other than right on their own border. (I.e. Huron, Helvetia, Iroquois, etc.) Wars against colonial powers with global reach (Spain, England, Portugal) are something to be avoided except under limited circumstances where you know you'll have the upper hand (such as when you are allied with one of them in fighting another, such as Spain AND France vs. England.)

[Elijah]

France? SP? Strategy? Why is this needed

[Sheridan]

Well, in the 1419 scenario it can be a little tricky (starting out with only 1/3rd of your cores and at war with two countries which are individually equal to you in strength), and there's a lot of ways you can really get in trouble (BB wars, inflation, etc). I pretty much meant it for newer players.

Also, except for a couple of overall generalizations (colony locations, the 1675 events) it pretty much only guides you through up to the religion wars. By then even a newbie should be pretty well set.

Of course, a lot of experienced players have their own styles, but then, this thread really wasn't meant for them anyhow. And even they could apply some of the reasoning *behind* my suggestions to totally different countries. (China or Russia for example).

As far as I am aware, though, the basic strategy should be workable in MP as well.

[Flame of Udûn]

added it here

Originally posted by Sheridan
Prior to the reformation Flanders can be good, but in the long term (esp. after going reformed) it becomes an economic dead weight and very susceptible to revolts. Also it's a Dutch core province once they form, which will drag you into wars with them

Why not just get rid of it when Jean Calvin arrives?

[Gjerg Kastrioti]

DO NOT take Flanders; it's an economic sinkhole.

Prior to the reformation Flanders can be good, but in the long term (esp. after going reformed) it becomes an economic dead weight and very susceptible to revolts. Also it's a Dutch core province once they form, which will drag you into wars with them.

Yes, those tax base 17 COTs are always a problem.

Seriously though, Flandern, an economic sinkhole? Rubbish.

It has massive tax value (17), high production income (cloth), high population and a COT? A sinkhole? Absurd. As for wars with the Dutch, so what? They can easily be crushed- France's manpower is more than match for the Netherlands.

I'll add some more if I can.

-Early on, despite the cost, go for large Cavalry armies. Richemont with 30K cav is nigh unstoppable, especially at close to max offensive.

-France has a large number of events raising taxes. Choose the best option to increase France's already high tax base.

-Crush Castille early
-Crush Austria early
-Crush England early
-Crush Portugal early
-Crush Burgundy early, but leave them alive in 1474 (Austria will inherit, but you will have cores)

Obviously, the strategy will depend on MP or SP.

[Nocuous]

Since France start to get explorers and conquistadors later than Spain, Portugal and England I like to leave at least one of my cores in the hands of England and Aragon (or Spain). I then go to war aginst Spain (and usually their ally Portugal) around 1495, in order to grab some maps and possibly some TPs and colonies. Later i use the same strategy against England.

Gjerg Kastrioti. The Burgundy Inheritence is in 1476, and if you are lucky you can inherit the lot yourself (and get cores on all dutch provinces).

Sheridan. Why not build a shipyard in Provence? Is it because it is in the Med and not on the Atlantic, so that you have to get your ships past Spain in order to use them in America? I often like to have some ships in the Med, so that I can make it my own little pond.

[Sheridan]

Yes, that's it exactly - if you put the shipyard in the Med, you then can't easily get your ships out if you're at war with Spain or Portugal. Or whoever controls Tangiers. You could put a second one in Provence - I just wouldn't put the first one there.

As for Flanders - obviously it's a matter of personal taste, but recall that it's of a non-matching culture (so you get a -30% to income) and also (after Calvin) non-matching religion, with a high population that makes missionaries very expensive. If you want to take it early and lose it then (which economically is better than holding onto it) go ahead.

As for leaving cores in English or Spanish hands in order to get a CB - there's easier ways that aren't as economically damaging to you. For example, you could claim their throne, warn them, or just attack without a CB. As long as you stay in your culture area, your stability costs shouldn't be too bad (less than 9 months per stab point at full investment is normal, I've found).

And the Burgundy inheritance event has a variable date. Don't count on the "France inherits" choice that gives you Dutch cores - it happens somewhere around 1/8th of the time.

[Prince Eugene]

Originally posted by Elijah
France? SP? Strategy? Why is this needed

Shhh.. don't use SP and strategy in the same sentence.

[Nocuous]

I know that the Burgundy event can happen later, but unless Burgundy is at war it will happen on the 4th of June 1476.

	date = { day = 3 month = june year = 1476 }
	offset = 0
	deathdate = { day = 4 month = june year = 1484 }

France will also only inherit in 5 of 95 games (it has a 5,3% chance of occuring).

As for Flanders, even with a 60% malus it is a good deal! With infra 4-5 you will get at least 50 gold, and this makes it better than most provinces in the game. Even if you don't spend money on missionaries it can still get converted by random events. There is even a bonus conversion if you hold on to the low countries through the revolts :

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1648 }
	offset = 10
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1649 }

	action_a ={			#The Netherlands is Subjugated#
		name = "ACTIONNAME3544A"
		command = { type = conversion which = 380 }

This is of course a poor substitute for the dutch culture you would get in previous patches...

The CB issue is mostly a matter of personal preference. I tend to avoid going to war if i don't have a CB. Since warnings are seldom effective, and claiming the throne is very expensive, I prefer to go with the CB province option.

[Sheridan]

Remember that Flanders is also subject to some pretty big revolt-risk events that last an awfully long time, and (at least in the newest betas) revolt risk also reduces province income.

Besides, for the amount of cash it takes (even if just calculating army losses) to hold it, you can build a colony. Given a province with relatively high base tax (i.e. Stadacone, base 5) the income you get from it is roughly similar.

[mhusoy]

This is good work Sheridan, I've never played as France, but after reading this I'll probably try it!

Though this wasn't a WC-strategy for France, I suspect that France may be the best nation to do a WC with?

[Szordrin]

Since it's a SP 1419 strategy mainly, one thing about the carabeen islands: Spain has the tendency of ignoring the eastern ones and going after Cuba/Tortuga, with an ocasional TP in the others ! So it's NOT that hard to go after them and thouse islands are good after all! And if you do grab some, you're bound to eventually conquer the other before they reach 4000 or so, to have a chance at the culture change! And besides, they're close to your main pagan target !

[QPR fan]

I reckon England is probably the best nation to do a WC with. After winning the first war against France, you in effect control France. You have French and Anglosaxon culture, and England is in a far better position to colonise the world. After beating up on France, if you make war with Spain and Portugal (force vassilise) you have a lone hand in colonising the world, and with that money behind you - steamroll Europe

[Sheridan]

Well, I can't really speak to the WC issue as I've never tried for it. Although I did once colonize and/or conquer all of North America (down to the northern Aztec border) as France - including Alaska and Hawaii.

The Caribbean islands issue is a good point - Spain does tend to ignore the eastern islands. However Spain is not your only competition; you also have to think of England. If you're lucky, the English will focus there and you can grab their usual territories on the North American mainland, which are economically not much worse, and are far easier to defend for two reasons...

a) Not subject to the TOT (none of eastern North America is once you get at least 2 provinces away from the Gulf Coast).

b) Since the provinces are land connected, you don't need a navy to move armies between them.

Also, a lot of your historic events deal with the North American natives, and some of your conquistadors will generate in the Quebec area if you control the right provinces.

And to them being 'close to your main target' - I disagree. The real targets are the *northern* tribes - the Iroquois, Huron, Shawnee. If you take and convert them, along with Canada and the Great Lakes and perhaps part of the American coast, you could wind up with a continental base of as many provinces as France itself has - or more.

In my last game, England went for the Caribbean and other islands, I let them have Newfoundland and Isle Royale, but they did not try to colonize any of the mainland. I took Canada (all of it), then leapfrogged my conquistadors (with cavalry) around the Navajo and colonized the Pacific coast. I never had any competetion for any of my colonies; then again, except for the usual outpost at St Helena, all of them were on the North American mainland.

[der Alte]

Whether Flanders is a good or bad province, here is my experience:

I played France (1.07 version) and got Flanders, Holland and Zeeland when I diplo-annexed Burgundy in around 1450. COT worked quite well, but once Anglia got its own aropund the 1520s, its importance declined quickly. Still it remained the 2nd fastest growing province. Problems started around 1560 and got really worse soon. 8-16% RR, which means at least 1 revolt (if not 2) per year. They had little chance to succeed, but its quite expensive to have military maintenance at 100% (otherwise I fail in too many battles) and have 15-20k troops in practically all Dutch provinces. For Holland and Zeeland situation gets only worse with the Union of Utrecht. However there is also the event of the Union of Arras, which substantially decreases RR in Flanders and Brabant. From this moment (early 1580s) I had little problems with Flanders, RR was a touch higher than in any other provinces, but it was not too difficult to scope with it.

Holland and Zeeland however became a growing problem, so fed up with getting there back every 3rd second, replacing losses of fighting the continuous rebellions, etc. I released them as a vassal with the intention to diplo-annex them later, by when they have built a juicy colonial empire. (I haven't got that far, so just hope I will be able to diplo-annex them later.) Having a military alliance with them also helps me a lot in colonial wars against England as I lag slightly behind in naval tech and force.

As about Flanders (I'm in 1635 at mom), its one of my most profitable acquirations, however its COT is just there to help growth as it covers just pathetic 4 provinces (Anglia and Holland took away most of the business).

[Rythin]

I play France WC 1419 vh/f now and I got all culture provinces by 1450