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OK,Lord NIL,but Bulgaria moddified it's tanks.As for the ships,well Bulgaria made it's ships(only Destroyers,Heavy Cruisers and Light Cruisers).Why not skill 4?Italian techteams are little underestimated.Theyr skills should be 5 or 6 at max,not 3-4.
 
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Bulgaria never had cruisers in the international sense of the word.
 
Von_Luger said:
OK,Lord NIL,but Bulgaria moddified it's tanks.As for the ships,well Bulgaria made it's ships(only Destroyers,Heavy Cruisers and Light Cruisers).Why not skill 4?Italian techteams are little underestimated.iskills should be 5 or 6 at max,not 3-4.
Yugoslav Partisans towards the end of war(44) modified their tank upgrading stuart to anti air tank or tank destroyer but i dont think they should have team for tanks. ;).

Bulgaria as i know didnt had any cruiser or hardly real modern destroyer at the time so i stand from that position.

Btw-not the italian teams are much undermestimated(although some could be fixed) but other minor countries teams are too boosted.

yugoslavia-skill 5
I made mistake in hurry i meant skill 3.Must be my subconcioness. :D
 
I found something really cool, when I was searching for a certain info about the flag of Croatia:


Flag of the German community (Volksdeutsche) in Croatia is based on the Nazi flag - the Swastika is replaced by Odal rune of the Ancient German script. Abandoned on May 8, 1945. Also used by Volksdeutsche from Yugoslavian SS-regiment (the 7. SS Freiwillingen-Gebirgs — Division Prinz Eugen).

I dont know how usable it is, but it could be included in an event or something similar (Maybe a research team lol).
 
Vladimir II said:
- Formation of the Union of the Non-Aligned Countries;
Seriously? That's bloody awesome! How does that work in the game? :eek:
 
Vladimir II said:
To Dorieus:

Post 1088:
1. I will see to make something with those events, but when I return from Greece.
2. The penalty effect is not significant. Yugoslavia was member of Axis for two days, and attacked by combined GER/HUN/ITA/BUL troops on 6. April and defeated in eleven days. So basically, even with zero dissent, that will not keep Yugoslavia from being annexed by Axis. Although when I played as France and studied behaviour of Yugoslavia while in war with the Axis, they survived for two-three months, since you do not have historical effect of Slovenes and Croatians surrendering to Germans without fighting. That is why war lasted for eleven days. In game YUG army fights at full capacity, so it is a bit stronger. And historically, Croatia was formed on 10. April, during the war, while in game Germany forms it later.
And since the war in Yugoslavia lasts for a month or two, Romanian AI or player will lower the dissent before attack on USSR.

Post 1089:
3. All right. Then first HQ will appear in all pre WWII scenarios, and the other one maybe in 1939. campaign, if Greece started then to fortify their borders.

Cool, enjoy your trip to Greece!
 
Could anyone tell me with what programm are the events pictures made?
Also could anyone tell me where to change doctrines and techs?I realy need this kind of information to correct some mistakes in the game.For instance Bulgaria was trained in the mobility focus doctrine,notin the grand battle plan one.And Yugoslavia had tank techs active(to early tank).
To Dorieus:Could you send me some pictures and/or info on precise equipment of the Greek army?
To Vladimir and other Serbs in this forum:please,if you have any info on armament and/or pictures,send them to me.
For the sake of realism could someone tell me if there was a Serbian Goverment that was a puppet of Germany?
 
Von_Luger said:
Also could anyone tell me where to change doctrines and techs?I realy need this kind of information to correct some mistakes in the game.For instance Bulgaria was trained in the mobility focus doctrine,notin the grand battle plan one.And Yugoslavia had tank techs active(to early tank).To Vladimir and other Serbs in this forum:please,if you have any info on armament and/or pictures,send them to me
For the sake of realism could someone tell me if there was a Serbian Goverment that was a puppet of Germany?
1.Use editor for tech changes-scenarios load year what you want choose country and then choose tech tree in which you can add or remove techs.
2.Serbia cannot be puppet for following reasons-this will destroy partisan activity in serbia,serbia will have 11ic and produce much things...Provisional goverments existed in almost every occupied country but only vichy and croatia had some sort of independent acting.
3.Bulgaria as mobility doctrie-are you sure you want to go in soviet tree?I think its better for player of minor to have grand battle than human wave.Also almost all countries in europe were based on manuvers or some transition (france only had real firepower doctrine) but their mentality was ww1 aka grand battle plan-infrantry and artillery-i dont think bulgaria was much diffrent although it did had proffesional army.Yugoslavian doctrine was called Offensive doctrine of manuver but for me its grand battle plan tree.
4.Yugoslavia starts with great war tank in 36,gain tankette in 38(t-32).R-35 was recived in 1940and here is no 1940 scenario.
5.Vladimir have yugoslavia pictures so ask him.
 
Gentlemen,

a fine initiative that I only just caught up with.

I had made my own "mini-mod" trying to enhance the Greek experience.

From what I have seen, the work already done on events, resources, industry and geography far surpasses mine.

You may want, however, to have a look at military leaders and, also, the tech teams, both organisations and individuals. On the organisations I think you are already doing well, maybe with a couple of additions possible, e.g. agricultural uni of Athens which, research suggests, did a lot of theoretical work on its field of expertise, or OTE/DEH for post '49 and '50. NTUA is certainly a good addition as is the Kapodistrian for a more "pure" science approach. Something to note is that resources should be modelled for their potential, not just how they were actually used. There were also some individuals, especially in the military, that did a LOT of theoretical or applied work in line of the development of doctrines. Their contribution fell, to a great extent, victim of post war Greece which has snubbed, in terms of publicity, such individuals (and the infrastructure work in pre-war Greece) mostly for political reasons. A key example is Konstantinos Dabakis (many field manuals, books etc are seminal). There were also others who did development work in practice (Iatrides for basic submariner tactics, Tsigantes who build special forces in Greece - to a great extent going hand-in-hand with the development the brits were doing in the Middle East).

There have also been some good points about how the basic game engine does not model the "purchase" model that many minors followed for their first armour and aircraft units. One of the big mods modelled this properly in the tech tree (I fail to remember which one it was...)

Finally, about armour. I am unsure about wether any of the nations in the area can claim an "armour division" of any sort. An armour division, in game terms, is more than the collection of the equipment (and even that is a stretch, historically). Without expanding on this, I am also of the opinion that, at best, the existing resources up to about '41 should be modelled as brigades.

Keep up the good work!!

PS: I can mail the relevant files to anyone who is interested
 
Von_Luger said:
Could anyone tell me with what programm are the events pictures made?
Also could anyone tell me where to change doctrines and techs?I realy need this kind of information to correct some mistakes in the game.For instance Bulgaria was trained in the mobility focus doctrine,notin the grand battle plan one.And Yugoslavia had tank techs active(to early tank).
To Dorieus:Could you send me some pictures and/or info on precise equipment of the Greek army?
To Vladimir and other Serbs in this forum:please,if you have any info on armament and/or pictures,send them to me.
For the sake of realism could someone tell me if there was a Serbian Goverment that was a puppet of Germany?
About event pictures. Just save them there where the event pictures are saved (Look in gfx). Than just write in the event the name of the picture. Well there are like 10 other things I would have to tell you, but have to run.
 
Pictures of Greek equipment

Von_Luger said:
Could anyone tell me with what programm are the events pictures made?
Also could anyone tell me where to change doctrines and techs?I realy need this kind of information to correct some mistakes in the game.For instance Bulgaria was trained in the mobility focus doctrine,notin the grand battle plan one.And Yugoslavia had tank techs active(to early tank).
To Dorieus:Could you send me some pictures and/or info on precise equipment of the Greek army?
To Vladimir and other Serbs in this forum:please,if you have any info on armament and/or pictures,send them to me.
For the sake of realism could someone tell me if there was a Serbian Goverment that was a puppet of Germany?

Hi Von_Luger, I got your private message, I'm sorry I'm very busy with work these days and I don't have time to do much research like you're asking me. I have looked at this website in the past with vehicle information, but it is in Greek: http://www.wargamer.gr/history/gr_vehicles1.htm

Maybe Paratrooper can help you out with this?
 
Another Greek

Paratrooper said:
Gentlemen,

a fine initiative that I only just caught up with.

I had made my own "mini-mod" trying to enhance the Greek experience.

From what I have seen, the work already done on events, resources, industry and geography far surpasses mine.

You may want, however, to have a look at military leaders and, also, the tech teams, both organisations and individuals. On the organisations I think you are already doing well, maybe with a couple of additions possible, e.g. agricultural uni of Athens which, research suggests, did a lot of theoretical work on its field of expertise, or OTE/DEH for post '49 and '50. NTUA is certainly a good addition as is the Kapodistrian for a more "pure" science approach. Something to note is that resources should be modelled for their potential, not just how they were actually used. There were also some individuals, especially in the military, that did a LOT of theoretical or applied work in line of the development of doctrines. Their contribution fell, to a great extent, victim of post war Greece which has snubbed, in terms of publicity, such individuals (and the infrastructure work in pre-war Greece) mostly for political reasons. A key example is Konstantinos Dabakis (many field manuals, books etc are seminal). There were also others who did development work in practice (Iatrides for basic submariner tactics, Tsigantes who build special forces in Greece - to a great extent going hand-in-hand with the development the brits were doing in the Middle East).

There have also been some good points about how the basic game engine does not model the "purchase" model that many minors followed for their first armour and aircraft units. One of the big mods modelled this properly in the tech tree (I fail to remember which one it was...)

Finally, about armour. I am unsure about wether any of the nations in the area can claim an "armour division" of any sort. An armour division, in game terms, is more than the collection of the equipment (and even that is a stretch, historically). Without expanding on this, I am also of the opinion that, at best, the existing resources up to about '41 should be modelled as brigades.

Keep up the good work!!

PS: I can mail the relevant files to anyone who is interested

Hi Paratrooper, thanks for your input. I suggested some events but I actually have not tried to write them out, which is the real deal. I'll send you my e-mail address by private message to send me those files you made.
 
Another comment about the supply situation of the Greek Army - following an earlier question about whether they should start with Rear Supply Dumps:

I will disagree with an earlier comment from Dorieus, with a slightly "ironic" mention of the Army's use of donkeys and other animals. This was, in fact, the accepted and planned practice for mountain warfare at the time. For comparison, one should take a look at the standard equipment of the German mountain divisions (from inception) which used animals almost exclusively for their supply demands. The reason was that in the '30s and '40s (and even later) the roads infrastructure in mountainous areas was literally non-existant.

The supply, equipment and even operational plans of the Greek Army in the mountains of Epirus took into account the mountainous nature of the battles to be faught - and executed accordingly.

Again, here, I would like to make a point about reality vs war and post war propaganda. A picture has been painted according to which "greek mothers", "spontaneously" carried all necessary war material on donkeys and on their backs up to greek soldier fighting the good fight (where did they find the animals? How did they know what to take where? How many mothers were carrying crates full of ammo on their backs??? Where did they find them? They had them burried in the fields just in case?).

Although civilians did indeed assist, on occasion, it all happened according to the operational plans, which made sure that the right material was moved to the right place, using army and commandeered animals.

On the question itself: Rear supply dumps, as many things in HOI, is an abstraction/approximation to show that the country in question has reached a certain level of professional and planned supply setup. The Greek army certainly had that, adapted to the circumstances of the battle they were going to fight.

Another indication of the excellent forward supply and service/maintenance setup, was the ability of the greek army to organize and utilize, in virtually no time, captured equipment of all types (from personal weapons, to artillery to vehicles).
 
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Paratrooper said:
Another comment about the supply situation of the Greek Army - following an earlier question about whether they should start with Rear Supply Dumps:

I will disagree with an earlier comment from Dorieus, with a slightly "ironic" mention of the Army's use of donkeys and other animals. This was, in fact, the accepted and planned practice for mountain warfare at the time. For comparison, one should take a look at the standard equipment of the German mountain divisions (from inception) which used animals almost exclusively for their supply demands. The reason was that in the '30s and '40s (and even later) the roads infrastructure in mountainous areas was literally non-existant.

The supply, equipment and even operational plans of the Greek Army in the mountains of Epirus took into account the mountainous nature of the battles to be faught - and executed accordingly.

Again, here, I would like to make a point about reality vs war and post war propaganda. A picture has been painted according to which "greek mothers", "spontaneously" carried all necessary war material on donkeys and on their backs up to greek soldier fighting the good fight (where did they find the animals? How did they know what to take where? How many mothers were carrying crates full of ammo on their backs??? Where did they find them? They had them burried in the fields just in case?).

Although civilians did indeed assist, on occasion, it all happened according to the operational plans, which made sure that the right material was moved to the right place, using army and commandeered animals.

On the question itself: Rear supply dumps, as many things in HOI, is an abstraction/approximation to show that the country in question has reached a certain level of professional and planned supply setup. The Greek army certainly had that, adapted to the circumstances of the battle they were going to fight.

Another indication of the excellent forward supply and service/maintenance setup, was the ability of the greek army to organize and utilize, in virtually no time, captured equipment of all types (from personal weapons, to artillery to vehicles).
Very informative and intersting but although you say that use of pack animals was planned in fact it was neccesity-i doubt greece if having good infranstracture would resort to motorised supply taing in account economic position of all balkan countries which was forcing them to use non motorised means of transoprtation.Although this fit howewer good in modeling epirus battles its not representing good supply position in other parts of front which id doubt that was advanced as english or france which hve supply dumps. :)
I come from other positin of yugoslavia-while reading documents of April war happenings i read strangely to popular misconception yugoslav supply was functioning almost perfectly.Although 70% of army was totally demoralised and desorganised in even first day supply chain was functioning adeqate despite all german bomber efforts against rail lines and roads.
And one more point-yugoslavia had most diverse arnament (for some notes-365 cannon shell types,aircrafts of german,italian,france,enlish,chech and yugoslav origin...)in balkan and and despite this suplly service was doing a hell of a job in giving adeqate supplies and moving troops for those short days of war.Only them and airforce are considered to be ready for war in 41 in organisational point.Army was totally unprapred taking in account political situation in country and overall bad strategic plan.Thats why only real resistance was given in macedonia in serbia (and that collapsed in few days).


On the question itself: Rear supply dumps, as many things in HOI, is an abstraction/approximation to show that the country in question has reached a certain level of professional and planned supply setup. The Greek army certainly had that, adapted to the circumstances of the battle they were going to fight.

I dont say i am against idea (i was proposing it to dorieus) but we must make larger discussion in comparing level of supply service of counties which have rear suply dumps in 36 (eng,fran pol) and balkan countries.Balkan countries overall had adeqaate supply service learnig from experiences of ww1.
 
Von_Luger said:
To Dorieus:Could you send me some pictures and/or info on precise equipment of the Greek army?
?

I don't have a great deal at hand, especially for Army equipment. Your research would be as good as mine (the greek army website does not give a lot of good info).

There is a fair discussion here http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=82323 about what type of equipment was used when the war broke out. You can google the equipment names and find pics (not necessarily greek ones, but they will do). Unfortunately I don't have at hand stuff for earlier periods.

The Hellenic Navy site has a great page for all the ships, past and present, including dates (commissioned-decommissioned) and pictures - those would be very useful for ship pictures in-game.

http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/oldShips.asp

The following is a "similar" page for the history of the Hellenic Air Force, but it is weak in terms of pictures and order of battle.

http://www.haf.gr/en/history/history/

However, if you are committed and have more time than I do, you'd could use this page as a "Google start" to find more photos :)

Not perfect, but I hope it's a start... if I find more time, I will send more things in the future.