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Fully alternative history mod

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unmerged(34993)

unmerged(34993)

First Lieutenant
Oct 5, 2004
243
0
www.denegnet.org
The idea is to make a mod of "world war", but with fully different countries. So stuff long ago just gone different. I think we should make it different from late medieval, because that way we can drop out "typical majors" and implement new ones.. (Like people in EU2 Abberation are doing).

So why do I want to make this mod?
1. To have fully different war, different background and different gaming experience. Imagine having war between ex. muslim Granada and Britanny? That is just an example.
2. To have balanced multiplayer, because we won't have "absolute majors" like USA, Germany or USSR. We will have smaller countries, and each of them will have chance to win the war.

The basic "rules" of mod.
1. No historical majors. All majors are brand new.
2. No "overpowered" majors. Every major should have chance.

So, how is the idea? I already have ideas of how history should come.
 
Freiksenet1987 said:
So, how is the idea? I already have ideas of how history should come.
Click to expand...

Perhaps war could start in a border dispute between the Aztec Empire and the Fifty Nations Iroquois? :D :D

Seriously, though; you need Aztecs. With human sacrifice events. There may be no death camps or gulags, but the mods never said anything about banning ritualistic sacrifice of your own people to please the gods, decrease dissent, and get your nation fully geared up for war.

Aztec Empire's flag could even incorporate the same eagle/cactus from the Mexican flag.
 
What about a Viking Empire?
Nobody was able to fight the Norseman, because Europe was shattered by other wars...

So the Viking Empire should include Scandinavia, Denmark, Island and Grönland, parts of North America and provinces even in Germany or the Netherlands...

2. No "overpowered" majors. Every major should have chance.
Click to expand...

I think we shouldn´t create absolutely independent major powers... So every country should be forced to import or export some ressources they need.
 
I think we shouldn´t create absolutely independent major powers... So every country should be forced to import or export some ressources they need.
Click to expand...
Yes, agreed. And no one should be able to accomodate LOTS of resourses, so convoy raiding would be really useful.

So the Viking Empire should include Scandinavia, Denmark, Island and Grönland, parts of North America and provinces even in Germany or the Netherlands...
Click to expand...

I though about Union of Kalmar represententing it. Like Denmark and Sweden. Maybe we can state that ex-colonies of Vikings stayed with Union, so they will have for example Normandy.

Perhaps war could start in a border dispute between the Aztec Empire and the Fifty Nations Iroquois?
Click to expand...
:rofl:
I am not sure about Aztec, but Iroquios could have opposed invaders quite well.
 
Ok, ideas of what went different. I am borrowing lots of ideas from EU2 Abberation, I hope they will forgive it )

1. Requanista (reconquest of Iberian Peninsula by christians) have not happened. So we have a Muslim Country in Iberia. (we should decide what happened to it, how it developed, etc, etc)
2. William the Conquerer failed to capture England.
3. France never went united.
4. Teutonic order was much stronger in medeival times.
5. Russia was never formed? We should decide other major orthodox powers than.
6. As I said before, Union of Kalmar have not dissolved.
7. Hansaetic union became state, maybe?
 
Freiksenet1987 said:
Ok, ideas of what went different. I am borrowing lots of ideas from EU2 Abberation, I hope they will forgive it )

1. Requanista (reconquest of Iberian Peninsula by christians) have not happened. So we have a Muslim Country in Iberia. (we should decide what happened to it, how it developed, etc, etc)
2. William the Conquerer failed to capture England.
3. France never went united.
4. Teutonic order was much stronger in medeival times.
5. Russia was never formed? We should decide other major orthodox powers than.
6. As I said before, Union of Kalmar have not dissolved.
7. Hansaetic union became state, maybe?
Click to expand...

Sounds very interesting - A Saxon England sounds like a very cool idea! Possibly also keep Wales, Ireland, Scotland and Cornwall independant and Celtic too....

Instead of having the Teutonic Order and Hanseatic League (which is a bit too much like Aberation!), why don't you make it so the entire German 'Drang nach Osten' never happened? That way you could have Novgorod as the major Baltic trading power (possibly with colonies in America...), West Slavic states in Mecklenburg, Pommerania and Brandenburg, and Baltic pagan countries in the middle.

And if France was never united, possibly have a three way split into Burgundy/Lotharingen in the North and East, some sort of greater Britanny in the West, and the South dominated by an Occitan state (maybe even still Catharist...?)
 
Sarmatia1871 said:
Sounds very interesting - A Saxon England sounds like a very cool idea! Possibly also keep Wales, Ireland, Scotland and Cornwall independant and Celtic too....

Instead of having the Teutonic Order and Hanseatic League (which is a bit too much like Aberation!), why don't you make it so the entire German 'Drang nach Osten' never happened? That way you could have Novgorod as the major Baltic trading power (possibly with colonies in America...), West Slavic states in Mecklenburg, Pommerania and Brandenburg, and Baltic pagan countries in the middle.

And if France was never united, possibly have a three way split into Burgundy/Lotharingen in the North and East, some sort of greater Britanny in the West, and the South dominated by an Occitan state (maybe even still Catharist...?)
Click to expand...

Yeah, good idea. But I don't think any country will stay pagan in Europe. We can have Grand Novgorod occuping east baltics, Finland and historical Novgorod lands (and colonies in West Indies, yeah) and Grand Lithuania in the Baltics - Belarus.

Any idea how this West Slavic countries would be called?
 
Freiksenet1987 said:
Yeah, good idea. But I don't think any country will stay pagan in Europe. We can have Grand Novgorod occuping east baltics, Finland and historical Novgorod lands (and colonies in West Indies, yeah) and Grand Lithuania in the Baltics - Belarus.

Any idea how this West Slavic countries would be called?
Click to expand...

:D Yes, the Grand Republic of Great Novgorod, with its New World Colonies and all-conquering Finno-Ugrarian auxilliary legions, and epic struggles with Sweden and Muscovy, was one of my best ever EU2 game!

If I remember, a large part of the justification for the conversion of Lithuania was to get the Teutonic Knights off their back - so, if there are no Germans trying to Christianise the Baltic, you could possibly still have a large pagan Lithuanian Grand Duchy. Could be interesting, but it's your mod, so feel free to disregard it!

For the Slavic countries, you could either keep them seperate, and follow the CK countries of Mecklenburg, Pommerania and maybe add Sorbia (for the Brandenburg type region...) -> Or coalesce them into some sort of 'Greater Wendia,' if they followed a German or Italian unification process in your timeline's equivalent of the 19th century. They would speak languages quite closely related to Czech and Polish, so I'm sure that the large Polish contingent here would be able to suggest more accurate versions of these names...
 
Could be interesting, but it's your mod, so feel free to disregard it!
Click to expand...

Mod is not mine, everyone is allowed to contribute into it =) But I think Lithuania would be made orthodox then, because I can't imagine pagan country in center of europe staying pagan till 19xx ) But maybe.
 
Freiksenet1987 said:
I am not sure about Aztec, but Iroquios could have opposed invaders quite well.
Click to expand...

Without the Reconquista, without a unified Spain free enough from Moorish worries to fund expeditions to the as-yet-undiscovered Americas, without the resulting wave of smallpox-mixed-with-European-conquest to wipe out the Aztecs, I fail to see how the Aztec Empire, which had already conquered the Mayans, the Texcoco, and other numerous kingdoms of Mesoamerica, could have *NOT* remained one of the most dominant powers on the two American continents. :)

They were a pretty industrious people, too; I bet you could even justify keeping the Panama Canal, or perhaps just moving the canal to a different spot.
 
So if England stayed Saxon, maybee they weren´t able to become a colonial power...
Same with Spain, beeing occupied by the muslims!

Instead, the Union of Kalmar and the Hanseatic League were the great colonial powers...


Maybe, if World War I never happened, the countrys didn´t develop tanks or something else yet?
The whole experience, got trough World War one, would not exist... Because of this we should change the tech tree a little bit, shouldn´t we?
Especially the doctrines were completely other, if History happened this way.
 
Black Guardian said:
So if England stayed Saxon, maybee they weren´t able to become a colonial power...
Same with Spain, beeing occupied by the muslims!

Instead, the Union of Kalmar and the Hanseatic League were the great colonial powers...


Maybe, if World War I never happened, the countrys didn´t develop tanks or something else yet?
The whole experience, got trough World War one, would not exist... Because of this we should change the tech tree a little bit, shouldn´t we?
Especially the doctrines were completely other, if History happened this way.
Click to expand...

Arguably a Saxon England would have developed into an colonial power faster as it would have had fewer ties to the mainland.

Perhaps more interesting would be a Viking England and Viking colonies in North America and further afield. Perhaps a victorious Harald Hardrada could be the scenario. Then you could have a Viking Ireland as well...
 
Antiochus V said:
Arguably a Saxon England would have developed into an colonial power faster as it would have had fewer ties to the mainland.

Perhaps more interesting would be a Viking England and Viking colonies in North America and further afield. Perhaps a victorious Harald Hardrada could be the scenario. Then you could have a Viking Ireland as well...
Click to expand...

I think Ireland, Union of Kalmar and Novgorod will be main colonizers.

Without the Reconquista, without a unified Spain free enough from Moorish worries to fund expeditions to the as-yet-undiscovered Americas, without the resulting wave of smallpox-mixed-with-European-conquest to wipe out the Aztecs, I fail to see how the Aztec Empire, which had already conquered the Mayans, the Texcoco, and other numerous kingdoms of Mesoamerica, could have *NOT* remained one of the most dominant powers on the two American continents.
Click to expand...

That can be quite interesting.
 
Freiksenet1987 said:
I think Ireland, Union of Kalmar and Novgorod will be main colonizers.

That can be quite interesting.
Click to expand...

And some Islamic Andalusian colonies in other parts of South America, like Brazil and Argentina/Patagonia could be very good too! They'd still be quite well-placed to take advantage of the same sorts of routes that the Spanish and Portuguese did, even if not on the same scale...
 
Sarmatia1871 said:
And some Islamic Andalusian colonies in other parts of South America, like Brazil and Argentina/Patagonia could be very good too! They'd still be quite well-placed to take advantage of the same sorts of routes that the Spanish and Portuguese did, even if not on the same scale...
Click to expand...

I think Granada focused on colonizing africa more and almost whole west africa will be theirs.

We need a colonizer for Indias and Australia... Any ideas?
 
What about China?
In the middle age it was the most powerful Nation in the Asian Area (competing with Mongolia and Japan)...
But it failed to become a major power -> in this mod it shouldn´t ^^

So China would be one of the main colonizers, as you call them, too...

EDIT:
We need a colonizer for Indias and Australia... Any ideas?
Click to expand...

I think China would be a quite good solution? It´s close to India, and even Australia isn´t that far away...
 
Black Guardian said:
What about China?
In the middle age it was the most powerful Nation in the Asian Area (competing with Mongolia and Japan)...
But it failed to become a major power -> in this mod it shouldn´t ^^

So China would be one of the main colonizers, as you call them, too...

EDIT:


I think China would be a quite good solution? It´s close to India, and even Australia isn´t that far away...
Click to expand...

I dont want to make China a major it is already quite a major in Hearts of Iron....

Maybe some Egyptian State?
 
Freiksenet1987 said:
I think Granada focused on colonizing africa more and almost whole west africa will be theirs.

We need a colonizer for Indias and Australia... Any ideas?
Click to expand...

Although there were some quite interesting powerful countries in West Africa (eg. Dahomey, Ghana, Benin, Ashanti...) which may have survived without the same sort of European intervention as in real life. Could be quite good to keep some of these, and open up this generally neglected area to a whole load of wars and conflicts!

India could also be independant, or made up of various different native states, as British rule was the result of quite specific chain of circumstances which may be difficult to reproduce in this timeline. You could even have some sort of Bengali state as a major colonial power - Indians had previously spread Hinduism into modern Indonesia (so Australia may not be that much of a leap...) and Bengal was one of the richest parts of the world in the 18th c....
 
Sarmatia1871 said:
Although there were some quite interesting powerful countries in West Africa (eg. Dahomey, Ghana, Benin, Ashanti...) which may have survived without the same sort of European intervention as in real life. Could be quite good to keep some of these, and open up this generally neglected area to a whole load of wars and conflicts!

India could also be independant, or made up of various different native states, as British rule was the result of quite specific chain of circumstances which may be difficult to reproduce in this timeline. You could even have some sort of Bengali state as a major colonial power - Indians had previously spread Hinduism into modern Indonesia (so Australia may not be that much of a leap...) and Bengal was one of the richest parts of the world in the 18th c....
Click to expand...

Yep, taken, good idea.
 
Heres a map of the viking empire and of the islamic expanison around 1200.
Makes for an interesting scenario but probably not in HOI2 but in Europa Universalis 3 when that might someday come.

history_1.gif


Yellow: Maximum extent of the islamic conquests, 7th - 11th centuries.
Red: Areas ruled by the Vikings or Normans, 9th - 12th centuries.
Brownish: Carolingian Empire at the death of Charlemagne in 814.
 
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