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We greet the new ambassador from the Frankish Kingdom and approve his credentials. We express our hope that he will continue meeting with our Council for the discussion of our mutual interests.

We also inform him, that foreign residents in Venice are known to have become members of the High Council upon oath of loyalty to the Serenissima Repubblica. Also, he must not worry about his fluency in the lingua franca. The main language spoken in Venice is money.

I'll wait for one more vote, since we have even number of votes right now, with a tie.
 
Alright, alright, I'll vote in #11 already. :p I'm not as big an economist as some of you guys are, so I was just going to let it ride. But since we seem to be at an empass. And I'm assuming you mean only election #11 Fodoron since you have 5 votes in election 10
1. I don’t see how we can tell you this, as, at least for me, I switch it as it advances, first Infrastructure (is this what you are calling “P”?) then trade and back again till I get to level 3 or 4. But, I suppose you are looking very short term and our trade already is at 3. . . So:
L0%, N 0%, T 0%, P 100%
2: B from 0 (or lower) to +1
3: A: NO, B:NO, C: Yes, D: No, E: As much as necessary, as quickly as we can.
4. A--NEVER
 
Thanks Carlec, you are right, P is actually Infrastructure.

Elections 10 and 11 are officially closed. Results are as always in their respective election posts.

The main change is that the war party has raised to power ;).
 
Fodoron said:
Thanks Carlec, you are right, P is actually Infrastructure.

Elections 10 and 11 are officially closed. Results are as always in their respective election posts.

The main change is that the war party has raised to power ;).

Whohoo!

I'll be Badoer, mostly cos of the cool pun or play on words :)
As I can't find any information (my google skills are abyssmal) I'll just play the leader of the Badoer war faction Senator Piergiorgo Badoer, currently the youngest senator and a (in)famous hothead and warmonger.
 
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Welcome Usually_Insane and Nil-The-Frogg. :) The more the merrier!! The whole thread idea of Fodoron breaks down if we only have 2-3 of us actively playing. Glad to have you aboard with us. This is really fun, if a bit slow in action due to waiting on all the voting and stuff. I don't know how Fodoron has the patience for it. :p

Now, back to the fun of the thread!

cornaro%20crest.jpg


Hmm, tidings have reached my ears from my several sources that some younger members among the Senate are pushing for more and more war. I've noticed that the young and perhaps quick tempered Senator Piergiorgo Badoer has arrrived to encourage us towards a more violent aggressive stance.

Let me remind the Senate that while the Cornero family has never turned from its duty to the Republic when war has called, war for wars sake only is the road to ruin.

Yes, I have clearly called for an aggressive stance against the Infidel and have pointed out the long term need for action in the Balkans to secure our southern flank and to push the Turk back across the Straights once and for all. Yet, we cannot press forward towards war at all costs, at all moments. We must be resolute and firm, but with a restrained hand. We should be ready to move at an obvious opportunity, not rashly pushing for any and all wars around.

Were we to listen to the council of some, we would be sending our galleys across the Mediterannean to far-flung provinces with no real hope of ever connecting those provinces with the home land (colonies in a far distant land are a different matter altogether). Or, some would have us rushing to confront the other Italians who will be there 100 years from now and, when we are stronger we can deal with them then. Embroiling ourselves too deeply in the politics of Italy now will not serve our long-term purposes.

No--we should only listen cautiously to a war-party. Fight we must at times when war is upon us. And my family will EAGERLY contribute to that moment. But now, caution. Even a newly arriving envoy from a barbaric northern province can see the obvious that we do not have the manpower to sustain a war footing.

Patience Doge--look only for wise moments to strike that best suit our needs.
 
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Okay, well, I'd better reply then :)
badoer.gif



Venerable senator Carlo Cornero,
fellow senators,
honorable Doge.

As a newly appointed member of the Serenissima Signioria it is with great pleasure to speak to you all.
More to the point I would like to adress the speech held By senator Carlo Cornero.

Yes! We desire war, only throught the force of arms can we ultimately protect our beloved city. See what has happened to those who have weakened, who have tried to appease their opponents. we must be ever vigilant lest we go to our own demise. but we must not war for wars own sake. In this I consider us to be in total agreement. But a glance towards the north, and the chaos that rages there, or the hundred years war should temper the restless.

But we must seize the moment! If there is an opportunity, we must act swift and without remorse. We cannot let another rule the italian peninsula!

but I shall bow my head to my elders wisdom, and for now support our efforts into production, infrastructure and trade. As these important renevues will give us the means to strike at our enemies. Not even the romans, from which I am a proud descendant, could have held their empire without a strong road network and skilled officials. For now then, atleast, let the swords rest, lower the oars, but be ready, do not let an opportunity slip by, Carpe Momento!

 
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Greetings to you all from the kingdom of the north (Denmark) i bring tidings of caution, the Austrian menace grows ever stronger, i fear, in some of my simulations (created by 50 wise seers working togeter to attempt to divine the future.) Austia has annexed Hungary, Bohemia, Genoa and most of north Italy, i therefore believe that we should attempt to blocade Austria's entance to Italy, be it by diplomacy or war, it would indeed be bad, if relations with austria turned sour, and a war was fought, that we should fight on all fronts. Of course my simulation might be outdated (non AGCEEP) but this is what happened.
This was the worlds of the barbaric dane, ambassador of Denmark.
 
Ooops, seems like the place will be crowded with barbarian ambassadors, unless I try to take a seat as a guest senator :p .

Unfortunately, I don't expect to have much time of my own these next days (weeks?), so this wouldn't be wise...

I'll just keep... "trading" with senator Dand... erm, "Mystère" ze Inquisitor. Oh, no, nobody knows him... :D
 
Although the Cornero, Mocenigo and Moro families have found their own shields, I can provide shields like the one in this post (whitout the bonnet, symbol of ducal authority) for any venetian family that ever had a doge (most of the main ones). EDIT: Only after 1034, the previous ones I can't get.
Look for the list of doges here. Choose one last name after 1034 and I will PM you a link to the shield that you can copy and paste in your posts.

Remember that every important family had several branches due to all the marriages between them, and the branches were only distant families, despite the same last name, so several senators can belong to the same family with only the usual family fights and jealousy.

A list of senators with a family I can provide shield are (I hope I am not forgetting anybody, if I do please remind me):

Badoer: Usually_Insane
Barbarigo: Norrefeldt
Cornaro: Carlec
Dandolo: Lawkeeper
Delfino: The_Genious
Mocenigo: Carmagnola
Moro: Hastu Neon

They will soon receive their shield link.

Those like senator Gandolfi, that prefer a family name not in the list of Venetian doges, I cannot provide a shield, but they might have their own to use, or go along without one.

Very important: Those that do not feel like getting in character have an equally important place in this AAR. I encourage them to continue participating because they are needed. We want their opinions and their votes as much as from those that do enjoy posting in character. Please continue doing it.

Foscari2.gif
 
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Hooray! More voices.

I just want to echo Fodoron! This is fun simply getting to put Fodoron's idea to the test, that of a Democratic voting of running a country. Normally when we play, we each are the Absolute Monarch. This way we get to see the power of voting and such. I'm learning other options about ideas just from the the way people vote and such. So far, I seem to be lawkeeper's shadow, :p but since he basically taught me the game, perhaps that's not too much of a stretch.

I could see how some might come in here and think that the whole deal is just some big rollplay. Nope--Fodoron plays, brings things that need votes to "The Senate" and we get to vote. On these votes, we can and should try to influence others votes with "why I feel this way." But all of that can be done from the warmth and comfort of your little home--just think about how you'd play it, tell us and vote accordingly. Like right now, Norrefeldt and I have disagreed about whether to attempt to get Kerch or not. Since I play all the time from the premise of "get a connected land mass" rather than isolated provinces here and there (again, colonies are a bit of a different issue, yet even there, I don't go and grab lone African or Indian provinces--just my style), I don't want to go get Kerch. But I'm sure that Norrefeldt has played much and has seen some good things come his way for grabbing a place like Kerch. He hasn't convinced me yet, nor I he, but its fun reading his reasons why. :)

And who knows, perhaps at some future vote, he will gain enough support to outvote "what I want done" and then off we go. Fodoron plays some more and we see how it all works out.

Loads of fun, but totally dependent on people voting at the proper time. So, the more the merrier. And, if you want to get "in character" for the fun of it, rock. It is a historical game, after all. I personally try to play all my nations to some degree of historical reality (no WCs for me).

On with the game--I know its close to Christmas Fodoron, but are you going to get to play any, any time soon?
 
Hi again, I've sougt a bit in my harsh norzern head about ze manpower problem and ze general question of War/peace.

Alzough my personal interests would be war (for trade purposes) I still believe zat I can gain more benefits by joining ze side and interests of ze Republic (guess I'm already half venetian sinking like zat :rofl: ). Sorry for my "contact" :D .

Attacking Genoes to take zem Kerch would be a very bad short term operation zat would ruin both economy and reputation. Zis could be a long-term benefit, but wiz no warranty and some risks for future bloodshed of venetian merchants. All in all, I would not recommand zat.

Taking Alexandria seems even trickier. I would not say that cruzades were a waste of money zough. Zey brought us much knowledge (and wealth to a handful of familiz, but I shouldn't say zat in ze Senate if I don't want to see a Venetian Kingdom of Jeruzalem tomorrow! :rofl: ).

Fighting the Turks should wait. Zei're superior in manpower and probably tech/moral/leaders, since you haven't our knights :D . Invincible knights, just maybe a little bothered some times with longbows and pikes :D . Of course, you're blessed wiz a supremely superior commander for your armies, but will it be enough?

Speaking of manpower, we franks sometimes call zis "breadpower" (well not really, but we COULD sometimes call zis zat way :cool: ). I've been told zat your merchants are zat wonderfully skilled zat zey can provide you wiz a higher supportable amount of troops when zey buy grain were it grows. Maybe you could help your strike force with barbarian grain, waiting to have yours?

[edit] Ooops, I realize I've been a little late wiz zis :eek:o .
I'm alwayz late anyway :( . Bah, I'm still just a stranger giving bad advices to the Serenissima in ze hope to conquer it one day, am I not? ;)
 
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I have played 1441-1443 (Paused and saved June 1444)

Below is the 1443 report. The summary for those years is in the 1439-1443 summary (link in the first post of the AAR). The account by the Doge of those years is in the brother AAR "Il Senato della Republica Venetiana". We will soon hold an election for domestic policies 1449-1478.
 
[size=+1]1443 Report (December)[/size]

1443b.jpg

Economy
Stability +2
Stability cost = 396D/level
Treasury = 162D
Inflation 3.0

Code:
Number of provinces:
1419     6
1423     7
1428     9
1433     9
1438     9
1443    11

Yearly income from provinces:
           Tax       Prod     Manp
1419      29.86      23.48     6.2
1423      46.80      37.43     6.2
1428      68.13      44.40     8.8
1433      78.78      44.14     8.8
1438      79.68      44.37     9.8
1443      80.78      55.47    12.0

Monthly income:
           Tax     Prod     Trade    Gold    Total   mil. maint. (50%)
1419       9.3      2.0       5.9     0.0     17.2       -1.7
1423      12.8      3.1       9.7     0.0     25.7       -2.2
1428      16.1      3.7       8.3     0.0     28.1       -2.2
1433      16.8      3.7       7.2     0.0     27.7       -2.5
1438      16.7      3.7       7.6     0.0     28.0       -2.6
1443      17.7      4.6       7.9     0.0     30.3       -3.4

23 merchants in CoTs (+1). 5 merchants/year
cost of placement is 4-7 in Italy, 7-8 in Europe, 17-25 Rest of the world.
Trade efficiency is 54% (first nation).

National
Monarch Francesco Foscarini
Military Good (7)
Administrative Good (7)
Diplomacy Good (7)

Code:
Domestic policies:
Year 1400 +       19 23 28 33 38 43
Aristocracy        4  -  -  -  -  -
Centralization     3  4  -  -  -  -
Innovative         4  -  -  -  -  -
Mercantilism       5  -  4  5  -  -
Offensive          2  -  -  -  -  -
Land               2  -  3  2  -  -
Quality            6  -  7  6  7  -
Serfdom            4  -  -  -  -  -

Note: We raised centralization on February 1439,
but the annexation of Athens put it back at 4.
Technology + % of next level (estimated date)
Land 2 + 17% (1484)
Naval 2 + 57% (1460)
Trade 3 + 12% (1628)
Production 2 + 79% (1449)

Military

Maximum morale displayed at 50% maintenance (Not real morale): 1.75 + 0.5 + 0.03 = 2.28

Leaders:
None

Army 21k infantry, 14k cavalry
maintenance cost at 50% 2.4 D/month
Army support limit = 41 000 (11 000 from trade)
Cost of army units:
Infantry 14D
Cavalry 28D

Navy 7 warships, 35 galleys, 9 transports
maintenance cost at 50% 1 D/month
Navy support limit = 109
Cost of naval units:
warships 45D
Galleys 10D

Manpower = 9
Manpower pool = 18,000 (1000/month)

International

1) Standing
Cores (Permanent CB): ACyprus (Cyprus)
Allies: Modena
Bad Boy 7.2/37 tarnished
Temporary CB: none

Countries with permanent CB on Venice:
Albania, Hungary, Ottoman Empire.

1443.jpg

2) Neighbours and near-neighbours by areas (allies). Underlined countries have land/strait border to Venice:

Italy:
Papal States +3 (Aragon +125 RM, Tuscany +127 RM MA, Navarra, Naples +140 MA, Brittany)
Venice (Modena +125 RM MA)
Genoa +42
North:
Tyrol +58 RM (Bavaria +126, Berg, Palatinate, Bayreuth, Wirtemberg +101)
Schwitzerland +121 RM (Burgundy, France, Scotland, Cleves)
Danubian:
Austria +172 RM MA, Styria +9 RM, Savoy +103 MA, Hungary -127 RM, Bohemia +17)
Balcan/Carpatian/Asia minor:
Bosnia +77 MA
Moldava -92
OE -200 (Egypt -97, Kara Koyunlu -87, Ramazan -28, Wallachia -87)
Karaman -200
Mediterranean:
The Knights +125, (Cyprus -46 RM, Georgia, -92, Theodoros +4 RM, Albania -200)
Black sea:

3) Vassalages:
Wallachia and Bosnia are vassals of OE
Savoy is a vassal of Tyrol
Moldava is a vassal of Lithuania

4) Changes in our area:
Tyrol changed alliances
Albania de-vassalized and changed alliances by event
Naples was de-vassalized by event
 
In 1444 started the tribulations of doge Foscari at the hands of the Council of Ten.

I hereby announce the commencement of:

[size=+1]The Trials of Jacopo Foscari[/size]

At the brother thread "Il Senato della Republica Venetiana: A collaborative AAR"

The Supremo Terribile Tribunale will be composed by:

Il rosso (primo inquisitore): Senator Aureo Barbarigo (Norrefeldt)
Il nero: Senator Count Moro (Hastu Neon)
Il nero: Senator Carlo Cornaro (Carlec)

All senators are invited to let their voices heard, since the hearings are held openly for the Quarantia (40 senators of the High Council that constitute the justice tribunal).

EDIT: The role of the defender of the accused, Jacopo Foscari, is vacant. It is first come first served. The first to post at the trial claiming the role, gets it (inquisitors should abstain).

ModernSenate.jpg
The Council of Ten goes to the Trial of Jacopo Foscari. In the front, senators Cornero, Barbarigo and Moro, the three inquisitors still dressed in senatorial robes. In the back, senators Mocenigo, Dandolo, Loredan, Badoer, Delfino and Gandolfi. Senator Ermolao Donato, the main accuser, is not seen in the picture.
 
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[size=+1]Election 12. 1449-1469 Domestic Policies changes[/size]

Indicate what the first three sliders movements should be. I will first select the three most popular movements and then I will order them according to their frecuencies. Repetitions within the same ballot will be considered separately. For example a vote:
will not count as two votes for one increase in centralization, but will count as one vote for two increases in centralization and on the third movement an increase for aristocracy. Use (L-) for an increase in Naval for example.

Initials and current values are:

(A)ristocracy 4
(C)entralization 4
(I)nnovativeness 4
(M)ercantilism 5
(O)ffensive 2
(L)and 1
(Q)uality 6
(S)erfdom 4

Results:
1449 C+ (6/8 votes)
1459 Q+ (4/8 votes)
1469 S- (4/8 votes)

The tie was resolved in favor of Q+ for preeminence given to it in more ballots.
 
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Fodoron, I remember us deciding that most of our posts, including the role playing, would occur in this thread. However, the trial is really just icing since there is no event actually within the game itself, thus, is that why you want us to post in the brother thread? Just trying to keep clear communication open for all--our reasoning for posting mostly here was to keep us from posting in both threads or having our voices and input lost to some who only read one thread or another. Am I correct that you want us to post, about the trial, in the brother thread? But also that ALL OTHER posts, INCLUDING ROLE PLAYING, will still be posted here?

Cornaro_G.gif


(S-) C+ (M-)

Can we never have peace from intrigue and trials? Do not greater matters concern us? I will post my initial feelings elsewhere and withhold most statements till others present the evidence. But while we worry about enemies without and within, we must still direct our glorious Republic with wisdom.

Let us continue to trust upon our economic power of trade and the capitalistic energy of our people to provide the impetus for our future glory. We must move domestically in areas that aid our economy.
 
Role playing is for fun, so it belongs in both threads. The democratic thread is the before action report (BAR). Everything that relates to a decision that has to be taken for the game (elections, events, war strategies, etc..) belongs here. All the game reports that guide those decisions also belong here. The "Il Senato della Republica Venetiana" is the after action report (AAR). It should have the narrated results from the game (I post the state of the republic speeches there), and the historical stuff. The trial of Jacopo Foscari is a historic happening that is not reflected as event in the game (no event decision to take), and therefore belongs to the AAR.

A forum member reading the AAR will read a standar AAR, with a narrated game and historic stuff mixed with stolen artwork.

A forum member reading the BAR will read a bunch of people, some in character and some not, trying to steer the destiny of a game, with all the discussions involved. A senator could just read the Democratic BAR and be just fine, but why would he? As they are, they can be read independently.

Regardless of that, any post can go wherever the author think it belongs. I am not telling people where to post. I just care that they do post to make this threads better.
 
EDIT: I have changed my vote in accordance to the Important notice!

this one of those roleplaying dilemmas :D
my whole powergaming body screams Centralization, but I'd never manage to convince the warparty about that, ohwell:

badoer.gif

(M)ercantilism - (just so I'm clear, this means one step towards free trade right?)
(Q)uality +
(S)erfdom - (and one step towards Free subjects i hope)

honorable Doge, fellow senators.

It is imperative that we strenghten our most important resource, namely trade. This has been our lifeblood for as long as anyone can remember!
However to protect our merchants we need a strong navy to discourage pirates and hostile nations, which these enemies are we all know.

As well as protecting the merchantships and caravels our fleets will also be able to swiftly transport troops around to our past and future conquests, something i find to be a commendable solution.

As for our armies, who always stand ready to bring victory to our fair city. It is my belief that more individual liberty and honoring citizens rights will bring better and more willing soldiers to our ranks, men more focused on the art of war then on pillaging, and in extension, more victories over our enemies.

I have spoken.
 
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Code:
Election 12

I+  C+  S-

Respected Doge, Honored Senators,

First, I regret my extensive leave, but weap-... hem tools trade is a pressing concern in those days of agricultural renewal. So, I will make it short.

In all times, new methods, new tools, new manufacturing processes, have made small countries big, big countries empires. Let not bigotrism and narrowmindedness limit the mind of our citizens, because Venice can only grow with its citizens, and not by holding them tight.

Then, the recent trial of the Unspoken-Anymore Count has shown that the Repubblica let too much power in distant generals, governors, bailio. All of these are more preoccupied by infighting and schemes, rather than by the greater good of Venice, which we, the Senate, are the only ones able to find and to pursue. All power should come from the Invincible City, secure in the knowledge of the power of the sea, entrenched besides our walls of water. The power belongs to our hands, dear friends, and all decisions should be made in those halls, or possibly by the Doge himself, but not by distant commanders and governors.

As a final note before taking my leave for the sheduled embassy to the court of Aragon, made on behalf, and in the sole interest, of our Serenissima Repubblica, I formally designate my great-son Enrico as my heir, should I cross the path of the Reaper. He is only 14 for now, but his raising in Cyprus is opening his mind to both the eastern and the western worlds.

Expects words of me before soon, with informations and reports.

I, Senator Dandolo, have spoken.

Long live the Serenissima Repubblica, Genoa delenda est.
 
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