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Fodoron said:
You can post there or here according to your preferences.

Sorry Fodoron, but we must decide on one thread or the other! Already, part of why there are less people voting (I think) is that the moderators stuck you in the AAR thread. That's fine if that is their wisdom, but I can speak for me that I didn't reply for a few days because I couldn't find you. Obviously, we know its here now and your sig may bring some new people in, but. . . However, checking here AND there will be confusing in my opinion. Someone who posts in one may be missed by the others.

I think THIS thread should be the one we post our opinions in and such and the brother thread should be THE HISTORY of what happened, a true AAR in otherwords.

Sorry to "break character," but it'll get confusing enough as it is. Please rule on this to clarify things for us all. Now, to your question. . .


Senators, there is absolutely NO REASON why we should not attempt to send tax collectors. I certainly know that for centuries, the "tax collector" has been an onerous position, yet needed. Our excellent forefathers, the glorious Roman Republic that we WILL resurrect in our own excellent way, certainly used this method of unifying and controlling the Republic and Empire. It should be noted that glorious Charlemagne also brought forth similar officials across his broad empire and with God's will, we too will have an empire of similar glory. Rumors already abound that French, Castillian, and English leaders have sought the same level of administrative control. There simply is no logical reason why we would not make this decision. I call upon you all to heed to wisdom. Of course we will not make the taxes overbearing and we will seek to bring fair justice to each province as soon as possible to ensure fairness to our people. But we MUST raise tax collectors.

Let me also add in closing, while I abhore the Genoese as much as any here in this illustrious body, we cannot idly sit by and watch the infidel cross into glorious Europe. While some of you would have us attempt to wreck havoc in Italy proper, our unguarded southern flank will be swallowed whole by the Turk. Heed this warning, if we are not vigilent and quick, not only will the glorious capitol of Constantine himself fall to the enemy, but turkish warriors will be seen on the outskirts of our own empire. Do you not remember the tremor that ran through our towns and villages as rumor of the Mongolian invasion came just over 60 some odd years ago? If we do not work to stop the muslim invasion at the Straights and push them off the continent proper, we will face them closer to home.

You may not wish for war, but to rather dabble in Italian political games (and I too know we will see a day in which the glory of Venice shines over our fabled ancestoral birthplace), YET WAR IS UPON US. We have long been the faithful friend of the Pontif; now do you not hear his cry for a nation of Christians to stand up and defend the faith? Let us move and move quickly!
 
I had the same problem myself. I finally had to go back a couple days in the regular forum to find Fodoron's original post there, then take the link here to find it. My solution was just to put a bookmark on this page itself, which seems to work well. Perhaps remention this thread one more time in the general forum and advise people to bookmark this one?
 
carlec said:
Sorry Fodoron, but we must decide on one thread or the other! Already, part of why there are less people voting (I think) is that the moderators stuck you in the AAR thread. That's fine if that is their wisdom, but I can speak for me that I didn't reply for a few days because I couldn't find you. Obviously, we know its here now and your sig may bring some new people in, but. . . However, checking here AND there will be confusing in my opinion. Someone who posts in one may be missed by the others.

I think THIS thread should be the one we post our opinions in and such and the brother thread should be THE HISTORY of what happened, a true AAR in otherwords.

I am not aware that the thread has been moving around, because I have it bookmarked. I initially put both the Democratic BAR and Il Senato AAR in the AAR forums, and as far as I know they are still there. The forum rules allow two independent threads for a single AAR if it is a collaborative effort, so one is for discussions and the other one for the AAR. We fit very well.

You are absolutely right. I am not a good organizer and it is getting confusing. "Il Senato AAR" should be reserved for both historical anotations and in character game reports, but I also want it open for in character opinions and rants about our enemies and friends as well. People should also contribute with anything that they feel is apropriate, for example a trip as embassador to Florence to deliver a marriage proposal they saw in the game (pic of Florence and descripion of Tuscan ruler, etc), keeping it within reasonable lengh. I want it badly to be a lively chronicle of our enterprise, but I cannot provide all the material required in terms of time and effort. I request your help there.

So if a senator wants to make a plea to convince fellows to move the game in one direction (related to an open election) it belongs in the "Democratic", but if he wants to deliver a speech on delentha est Genoa, or talk about the dangers of the new bey of the turks, or give us an account on how the steal of the body of St. Marks is a clear sign of our destiny and point we should go after Milano it should go to the "Il senato".

In other words, posts in "Il senato" will not be taken into account to implement policies in the game.

Is this new policy in line with your own thoughts? Let me know.

I am going to close the election on the Hungarian war, and I will play the first couple of years over the weekend, at least until the war is over. The rest of the elections will remain open at least until Monday to give more time to people. I will only calculate the most popular DP movement for 1419 (we cannot go wrong on that), and posterior votes will influence only the 1429 and 1439 movements.

EDIT: The hungarian war election calls for reclaiming Dalmatian ownership at the peace table. Easy enough.

The clicks will be recounted on election closing, but 10 out of 12 votes support an increase in centralization, with five of them calling for it in the first click, so I'll just do that. For your information, another increase on centralization and one on mercantilism appear to be winning for the next two clicks.
 
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Yes, that is how I (at least) feel. That way, if I want to read the brother thread for flavor, I can and will. But if my time is limited and I just want to vote on decisions, see the results of those votes, and be influenced on HOW to vote, then I'll just have to read here. Keeping all of our voting and influence inducing posts to sway the vote one way or another right here is the best plan from an organizing point of view.

And, honestly, I am wrong about the moving thread thing, then. I never actually noticed when I first joined up, having just jumped from your sig to here. So, that was my bad. I only later attempted to go back and see results and such and looked in the main threads. It only, later, occurred to me that it might have been "moved" to here. I was only commenting or noting that you've had less responses as we've moved along and was thinking that were the thread in the main forum, then obviously it would get "seen" more often and either get new Senators or remind the current Senators that they need to vote. It is an extra step to actually come to the AAR forum.

But that's just me and its not a big deal. You're doing a fine job hosting the fun for us all. Can't wait to see how it all works out.
 
Most respectable senators,
We have triumphed over the hungarians without a single casualty on our part. Read how such feat was accomplished here.

1st January 1419 actions:
-Maintenance at 50%
-Minting at 100%
-Religious tolerance at 75% for Catholics and Orthodox.
-TC at Veneto
-Disband 3 cannons
-Sent diplomat to Hungary and obtained Dalmatia + 50D
-TC at Dalmatia
-TC at Crete
-Recruited 2000 cav. for 54D in Ionia

1419-1423 Account:

Year 1419
-sent 9 merchants for 77D: 6 succeeded, 3 failed and 1 lost.
Total +5 merchants
-Centralization +1 (now 4)
-TC at Istria
-TC at Ragusa
-TC at Corfú

Important international events nearby
OE, Albania, Bosnia and Wallachia DoW to Serbia and Bohemia (Hungaria & Luxemburg dishonor)
Tyrol, Austria and Styria DoW to Switzerland. Savoy joined later.
Lithuania, Poland and Masovia DoW to Moldavia
Hungary DoW to Bosnia, OE, Albania and Wallachia

Our diplomacy
-RM with Modena
-RM with Tuscany

Year 1420
-sent 5 merchants for 29D: 3 succeeded and 2 failed.
Total +3 merchants
-TC at Ionia
Stability increased to +2 on September
-Recruited 2000 cav. for 54D in Ionia

Important international events nearby
Serbia pays 106 and Kosovo to Albania
Hungary had crusade against hussites and DoW at Bohemia, Serbia dishonored
Hungary allied the orders and joined their war to Novgorod (Hungary has 3 wars now)
Hungary paid 27 and Croatia to Bosnia
Papal States, Aragon, Tuscany & Modena (Naples dishonored) Dow to Siena.

Our diplomacy
-RM with Siena
-Reject TA with Egipt
-sent 33D gift to Athens, relations improved by +13 to +38.
-sent 33D gift to Athens, relations improved by +12 to +50.

Year 1421
-sent 4 merchants for 36D: 2 succeeded and 2 failed
Total +2 merchants
-Recruited 2000 inf. for 26D in Crete.
-Recruited 2000 inf. for 26D in Corfú.

Important international events nearby
Moldavia paid 95D Bujak to Lithuania, Moldavia becomes a vassal of Lithuania
Genoa became vassal of Milan by event
Byzantium executed Mustafá to please Murad.

Our diplomacy
-sent 33D gift to Athens, relations improved by +28 to +78.
-sent 33D gift to Athens, relations improved by +58 to +136.
-Obtained MA from Athens

Year 1422
-sent 5 merchants for 44D: 4 succeeded and 1 failed
Total +4 merchants
Set sliders at 10% Naval (2D), 20% Land (5D), 70% Infra (16D), temporarily.
Scandal at court Relations with Tuscany -25 on June
Stability increased to +3 on September

Important international events nearby
Hungary lost Silesia to Bohemia
Siena was annexed by Papal States.
Aragon, Papal states, Tuscany and Modena DoW to Naples

Our diplomacy
-Entered RM with Styria
-Entered RM with Austria
-Entered RM with Tyrol

Year 1423
-sent 5 merchants for 40D: 4 succeeded, 1 failed, and 4 were lost (2 from disappeared CoT)
Total +0 merchants
-Set sliders at 10% Land (3D), 10% Naval (3D), 20% Trade (6D) and 60% Infra (14D), as decided.
-Event Decission 1: Prophetic doge event on March. c-Cautious foreign policy was chosen.
Francesco Foscarini will rule our nation since April

Important international events nearby
Great army reform of the Ottoman empire
OE, Albania, Bosnia, Wallachia and Egypt DoW to Candar.
Byzantine Empire and Morea DoW Ghazi and Kara Koyunlu.

Our diplomacy
-Obtained MA from Austria
-RM with Switzerland

EDIT: Added year 1423 to keep 5 years per post.
 
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Event Decission 1

The prophetic Doge Event happened to us on March 1423.

1423.jpg

Option A:
Land Investment +250
Naval Investment +250
Inflation +2
Land +1
Quality +1
Relation with Austria, Hungary, Milan, Papal States, Modena, Tuscany, Naples, -30

Option B:
Land Investment +50
Naval Investment +50
Trade Investment +250

Option C:
Trade Investment +250
Infra Investment +250
Inflation -5
Relation with Austria, Hungary, Milan, Papal States, Modena, Tuscany, Naples, +30

State your preferred option.

Result: Option C has been chosen with 9/9 votes.
 
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We should be cautious in our foreign policy in Italy, and bold overseas! Tommaso Mocenigo deserves our respect, but a doge should not rule from his grave, since there will come others doges as wise as he is.
Senator Nordino


*casts his ballot for the cautious foreign policy*
Code:
Event Decision 1: C
 
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Code:
Event Decision 1
C Cautious Foreign Policy
 
Code:
Election 6
2. A. no B. no C. take a loan, then mint to pay the loan D. not yet E. not for orthodox conversions. F. 10%
3. A. Make it high priority to get full maintenence army, and use those 200d of the random events reserve.
4. Never

Code:
Election 7.
1. A, always research
2. 
-Merchants
-Promotions (TCs)
-Conversions
-Diplomatic gifts
-Manufactories (FAAs)
3. Yes!
Senator Nordino, somewhat late
 
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Code:
Event decision 1: C

I would appreciate if the report presented by our Doge contained also a reference to current inflation. In any instance, considering an initial minting of 100%, pursuing a moderate policy could bring down inflation and it's for sure a good piece of news... inflation is never loved by our merchants
 
Current inflation is close to 3%. It was used to fullfill the goals of TCs in every province, send merchants, improve relations with our vassal and rise some troops.
 
Fodoron said:
Current inflation is close to 3%. It was used to fullfill the goals of TCs in every province, send merchants, improve relations with our vassal and rise some troops.

Ok, I good reason to confirm my C choice.
 
I want to call the attention of the senators also over our international policies.

We know well who our friends should be (see election 5), Modena, Tuscany, Austria and Papal States. We also know who are our enemies, Genoa, Milan and the Ottoman empire. But we are ambivalent about the Byzantine empire, with some senators proposing them as dear friends, and others as logical victims of our expansionist policies. This is an issue that needs to be resolved soon. I would like to see some discussion about it before an election becomes necessary.

At the moment, the Ottoman Empire is in a very strong alliance that has emerged victorious in two wars, while Genoa and Milan are tied by vassal-suzerain relationship and quite capable of giving us a run for our money (i.e. dificult to defeat). But we keep vigilant for opportunities.
 

The lingering skeleton of the old Byzantian Empire cannot last. There is no reason to approach them as dear friends unless it were to attempt to show them reason to join us simply as our vassel. Then, some 20-30 years hence, they would gladly join the empire.

However, the likelihood of that happening are slim as we all know. To waste resources that are limited to begin with in any vain attempt to purchase their allegiance is wasteful. Let us all accept the reality that the old empire will go and the only real question remains as to who will control the Straights. It is imperative for us to control that vital sea lane. Plus, it is our Christian duty to preserve old Constantinople from the infidel!

Let us move resolutely towards our enemy, not away from him. As I have said before, if we wait and attempt to hope for peace from those of the cresent, we will merely be waiting for our own death from which, were we to perhaps stave off defeat, would only do so to find ourselves in the humiliating position of being saved by someone more powerful than ourselves. And that would only mean the reality of a future vassel status or worse.

NO! Let us move with confidence to block the straights and even, perhaps holding the land of the Ottoman's that is historically greek in culture. Once we have cleansed the Balkans of Muslim influence, confining the infidel to war with his own people, we can focus clearly on what is happening around us in Italy.
 
There are many reasons to take control of Byzantium. Senator Carlec already mentioned that the probability they would gladly join out empire after 20 or 30 years are slim and would cost us much of oour resources. He also mentioned the importance of controlling the Straights.
I would add to this the fact our Doge already mentioned; it would be a small disaster if the Ottomans managed to capture the Byzantine fleet. It would surely help them to contest our naval superiority. If we took control of Byzantium it would be our fleet that would be enlarged.

And about the idea of only supporting Byzantium against the Ottomans I can say only this; it would either be a continous loss of money, which they will need to stand a chance, or it will be a complete failure and our money will probably only have enlarged the Byzantine fleet (and indirectly the fleet of the Ottoman Empire)

So to protect our interests we should follow the example of the great Doge Enrico Dandolo and capture Byzantium.
Only this time we will do it ourselves and WE will keep it.