[Mod] Saeculum Obscurum: A Late Antiquity Mod

Cèsar de Quart said:

Have you tried to look out for the Fasti Consulari?

I had read a French book that listed provincial governors up to the Late Empire.

Senatorial families owned a lot of land from all over the place. The most powerful ones cannot be confined to a single province or even a single diocese. I think it was the Mellanii that controled most of the Ebro valley, but not just that. They also owned a good chunk of the lower Rhine, of the area around Soissons and modern Anjou, vineyards in Lybia and Morocco...

Click to expand...

I'd actually mostly forgotten about the Consuls (it being a purely honorary title by now), but yeah it makes sense that the Consular lists will have plenty of important people on it. In terms of Senatorial families, I'd like to give them the county where the're main landholdings were. I'd rather not have situations where the Vicarious of Africa is controlling parts of Gaul, for example.

ServusMundi said:

Bad_Haggis,

I am not much of a modder and usually only lurk around these forums, but I'm really in love with this period (and the idea of wedding it to CKII! ) so I want to help as much as I can. I happen to own a book, "Sasanian (yes, just one "s") Persia" by Touraj Daryaee, an Iranian expert, which has a pretty thorough description of Sassanid political organization. I could summarize some key facts for you in an email or message if you want something to go off of when you get to working on the middle east.

Click to expand...

That would be great, I'm flying blind when it comes to how the Sassanids actually organised themselves. If you could send me a PM with a summery of it, it would be immeasurably helpful.

Cheers.

I'm researching the Celtic peoples at the moment, I haven't got the Celtic/Druidic religion done yet, but when I do I'll post it up here.

It's quite difficult to establish how much it had changed from the Druidic cults that Caesar (not that he's the most reliable source) talks about, but I'll see what I can find out.

Aye, I'm just looking though my books on early Irish history (given that Ireland had the least contact with the Romans of any Celtic peoples) and how they describe the native religion.

There appears to be the rank of "Arch-Druid" (don't know what the translation of that would be in Irish) who was located in Tara.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_of_Tara

Oh and interesting fact that came up, apparently the Druids would thrust a flower, called "madman’s wisp", into the face of a person who had annoyed them, and make them become insane. Pretty cool event material there .

But all in all, Celtic polytheism seems to have been more cultural superstition than religion, hence the fact that it was so easily absorbed into Celtic Christianity. Druids seem to have become Priests on many occasions, giving Celtic Christianity a very different outlook than Orthodox Roman Christianity.

"The religion of the Irish was essentially passive; based very much on augury and ritual, it did not demand faith. Unlike Christianity, it was not a proselytising religion."

"The religious beliefs were focused upon nature, the seasons and specific places. The cult was administered by Druids, a senior and venerated caste within the tribal structure. Druidic practices got a bad name from the Romans, but it is unlikely that the mass burnings and other human sacrifices that Roman writers of the early Imperial era loved to deplore were being made in fifth-century Ireland."

There's also this website, but I haven't got a chance to look though it properly yet. http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/idr/

Hawkeye1489 said:

Hey Bad_Haggis, I had a question about the integration of Christianity in your mod. With the Edict of Theodosius making Christianity the religion of the Empire, I assume that Rome will start out that way? Either way, considering the nature of the Pentarchy, will you be adapting the Orthodox Religion to all of Christianity? Idk this, since I'm not the extensive modding type, but is there a way to have Rome at the head of the Pentarchy as the Head of Religion for the united Christian Church considering the nature of the primacy of Rome?

Click to expand...

The Roman Empire will start off significantly Christianised, apart from some remote and rural areas. The Imperial Government (especially in the East, where Pagans couldn't serve in the civil service or the military after Aelia Pulcheria became regent over Theodosius II ) will be almost entirely Christianised, with a few Pagans left where I can find them.

I'm planning on using the Orthodox mechanics for churches which adopted the Nicene Creed, and yes I'm 99% sure that you can change which Pentarch is head of the Religion (I believe it was done in Lux Invicta, I haven't played that in ages), so Rome will have primacy.

riknap said:

Bad_Haggis and company is turning to an amateur historian, just as Paradox has planned.

Click to expand...

I bet they'll steal all my ideas for their new game! :glare:

Sifaus said:

I'm really excited about this mod. *-*

Click to expand...

Cheers .

...

Anyway, because I've got nothing better to do until Paradox releases TOG, it's Dev (ha) Diary time!

Drum roll please.

Codex II.a



Return of the Celts Edition

(Read this in your most stereotypical Irish/Welsh accent, for dramatic effect).

...

So we have the British and Irish Celts, the last bastions of a great people who once ruled from Hibernia to Galacia, and much in-between. It's not exactly the high water mark of Celtic power in the 5th Century onwards; the Britons are a shadow of their former selves, having been subjugated by Roman Armies and forcibly integrated into the Roman cultural and political sphere. Ireland is a mess of rival tribes and petty kingdoms, and Pictland is hardly a unified whole either. Things are pretty bleak for the Celtic remnants. A few Britons have fled to Brittany to try and establish a new safe haven, but it's survival is precarious.

Rome is losing interest in Britannia, Pict, Irish and Saxon raids have left the Imperial administration shaky to say the least, and it is now a semi-independent Military Autocracy where the most powerful Roman Warlord rules. It has a tendency to support Imperial pretenders, and defying the wishes of the central government. As such, it's no surprise that the Empire is now apathetic towards it's survival. Historically Chrysanthus (who will be Vicarius of Britannia at the start date) was the last civilian ruler of Roman Britannia. He was succeeded by two short lived Imperial usurpers, then by Constantine III, who ruled Britannia, Gaul and temporarily Hispania from 407 to 411.

In terms of Culture, the South East of modern day England will be Romano-Brition, in the Latin Culture group, with the rest of the British Isles being a sub-sect of the Celtic cultural group; so Pictish, Irish and Brition.

Decent map of the extend of Romanisation (Romano-British culture will cut out along the Julio-Claudian line, for game-play reasons). Also, map of Pictish Kingdoms and Map of Ireland.




...

I'll get into the Religious, Political and Military set-up later on.

Cheers, I'll take a look out for that book.

Edit; Slight side note here, Sub-Roman history in Britannia is hilarious. It's a hodgepodge of myth, legend, plain fabrication, and pseudo-history.

For instance, Constantine III (British usurper) seems to have been a Roman Solider, who deposed a usurper who also deposed a usurper before him. Not according to Geoffrey of Monmouth though, who decides that Constantine III was actually a King of Brittany who could trace his lineage back to Troy :wacko:.

Oh and he just makes up a few Roman Emperors (who's going to notice that there was never a "Lucius Hiberius" anyway?).

The worst thing is that the "Historia Regum Britanniae", instead of being laughed at, is quoted as fact on more than a few websites that I've been looking though :angry:.

Glatux said:

Their were also Gallic Pagan, and before Roman invade Gaul, Gallic had a been a bit influenced by Greek who visit them. If think Celtic Gallic had different Gods and use different name for religious festival. Under the roman empire their were a bit of variation in their religion, for example "Toutatis" was called after the roman was called "Mars Toutatis".

Click to expand...

I was going to give the Gauls and Iberians plain old Graeco-Roman Paganism, as Druidism was wiped out in those territories. Plus Gaul was far more Romanized than Britain ever was.

Glatux said:

Gaul had a "Gallo-Roman" paganism, it's a mix between rest of Druidism and Roman church.

Click to expand...

That was the same in all areas where Graeco-Roman paganism was established, in Anatolia they included Anatolian deities, and likewise in Egypt. I'd rather not split Paganism into distinct geographical areas, only where that Paganism was not brought into the greater Roman Pantheon (Ireland, Scotland, Germany, ect.).