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A Federation of "Equals" - A Danubian Federation Interative AAR

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Thoctar said:
I have another proposal to add to this divvying up of our country's railways. I would like to direct the workers I represent to pool their resources and form a co-operative to run/operate, and/or own some of the railways of the Federation, at least the portions that go through our fine Croatia and Dalmatia. Would this be acceptable?
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I've already bought the rights to the Water Line, Councillor. Howev-

A messenger walks quietly into the Council chambers, bearing an envelope. Striding over to Domenico while throwing suspicious glances at Obradovic; he bent over and whispered urgently into Domenico's ear before leaving him the envelope and striding out. Domenico smiled and stood.

Gentlemen, I have good news: the Consiglio has ratified the latest Agreement; and I and the Croatian representatives have signed it. It is with great joy in my heart that I present the Mutual Agreement:

Mutual Agreement towards the Establishment of the Veneto-Croatian Condominium of Istria and the Dalmatian Isles​

In the interest of peace, in regards to the Dalmatian Question,
The State of Croatia and the State of Venice, in regards to the Establishment of the Veneto-Croatian Condominium of Istria and the Dalmatian Isles, agree to the Following:

I. That the islands of the Adriatic Sea currently owned by Croatia and the waters surrounding them, as well the Municipality of Prevlaka and the waters surrounding it, in addition to all of the Province of Istria west of Fiume shall be placed under Condominium of the States of Croatia and Venice.

II. Citizens living in the Condominium, being currently of Croatian nationality, will have the right to adopt Venetian nationality if they so desire.

III. Citizens living in the Condominium will vote for their own nations' laws and representatives.

IV. Revoking, reforming, dissolving or abrogating the state of Condominium requires the approval of both States, or the situation described in Article V.

V. Should the State of Venice ever attempt to dissolve its bonds with the Danubian Federation or any reformed federation or state thereof, the state of Condominium shall be immediately revoked, and all lands that were placed under it will be returned to Croatia in perpetuity.

VI. The State of Croatia recognizes the right of the State of Venice to pursue the recovery of Her former lands currently under control of the Ottoman Sultanate, granted that She respects the rights of the Croatians within.

VII. The State of Venice pledges not to seek to further its direct control of the Dalmatian coast, waters and lands under jurisdiction of the State of Croatia.

VIII. To ensure a smooth transition of sovereignty into the joint hands of both the State of Venice and the State of Croatia, a census is to be conducted amongst the citizens of the Condominium within six months of the signing of this Agreement, to assist in accurate record-keeping and provision of services within both states.

These Articles having been solemnly Adopted on This Day [date] in the Year of Our Lord, 1848 by the Undersigned; whom have been expressly Empowered in the representation of Their States:

[signed]
Crepko Obradovic, Councillor for Croatia

[signed]
Janos Papp, Deputy for Croatia

[signed]
Domenico Mocenigo, Councillor for Venezia
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Guilu said:
((We're talking dozens of millions of.. pick one among $/€/£. You could never work in your whole life with that kind of money and still live in outrageous luxury. Just think about how much it would take just to pay the workers for the years you would need to build the thing.

No guarantees on the water line; I've already mentionned croats beating on venetians, I wouldn't be surprised if it got worse once they see the compromise we got. I may have comitted political suicide signing this thing.))
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((Domenico doesn't live in outrageous luxury; just in a comfortable fashion for a Gentleman of this period. A hereditary family palazzo in Venezia, property in the Friuli, and a small apartment in Vienna does not outrageous luxury make. As for the wages, that comes out of the Consiglio's collective pocket, not Domenico's.

And beatings are fine. I'm sure the gendarmerie wouldn't object to shooting a few Croatians.))
 
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I am glad that everyone is so fruitfully discussing my favorite topic, railroads. It has interested me since I was a boy. Anyways, I support the creation of the Beige line and the adjustments made on the rest of the lines.

I also congratulate the Croatians and Venetians for coming to a decision on the Dalmatian Question.

~Vice President Ion Horsa C.
 
theAhawk said:
((Well, the Liverpool and Manchester Line in 1830 cost £637,000 (£52,680,000 today) and goes a distance of around 30 miles; Venice to Dubrovnik would be over 500 miles and hence would cost £10,000,000 ( £824,000,000 today). I'm not convinced any one person could get anywhere near that figure...))
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((Yeah, and this is a time where you could buy stuff with pennies too. I mean, you can be rich, but this rich, you might want a backstory as to how you got such a ridiculous amount of money. We may not be talking hundreds of millions for a few miles of railways, because it's pretty hard to estimate the value of money in a time that didn't have the whole consumer society we do now, but still, you would need just absurd amounts of money. You'd probably own the bank storing it even.))

Ab Ovo said:
((As for the wages, that comes out of the Consiglio's collective pocket, not Domenico's.))
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((You have a peculiar use of first-person singular, then.))
 
Ab Ovo said:
I've already bought the rights to the Water Line, Councillor. Howev-

A messenger walks quietly into the Council chambers, bearing an envelope. Striding over to Domenico while throwing suspicious glances at Obradovic; he bent over and whispered urgently into Domenico's ear before leaving him the envelope and striding out. Domenico smiled and stood.

Gentlemen, I have good news: the Consiglio has ratified the latest Agreement; and I and the Croatian representatives have signed it. It is with great joy in my heart that I present the Mutual Agreement:
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I am glad that this matter has finally come to a conclusion. However, I still would like your opinion on the co-operative matter. ((Since I do agree that you being able to fund the entire railroad a stretch, we could split it and you and your rich aristocrat friends could do the line up to Fiume and the co-op could do the rest.))
 
Thoctar said:
I am glad that this matter has finally come to a conclusion. However, I still would like your opinion on the co-operative matter. ((Since I do agree that you being able to fund the entire railroad a stretch, we could split it and you and your rich aristocrat friends could do the line up to Fiume and the co-op could do the rest.))
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I suppose I'll fund it from Padua to Istria; and then the co-operative can assist in funding from there to Cattoro...
 
I would also believe a Co-operative system could be implemented in the Bohemian sections of the railway. I myself will invest, however I am no capitalist and I doubt my contribution would be worthy of note.

I am also relieved a solution to the Dalmatian Issue has been found and implemented. Good work has been done by Venetian and Croat alike.

- Petr Šik, Czech councillor for Bohemia
 
Dadarian said:
I am glad that everyone is so fruitfully discussing my favorite topic, railroads. It has interested me since I was a boy. Anyways, I support the creation of the Beige line and the adjustments made on the rest of the lines.

I also congratulate the Croatians and Venetians for coming to a decision on the Dalmatian Question.

~Vice President Ion Horsa C.
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Sir, could we work collectively on the matter of the railroad lines running through Transylvania? After my adviser just told me the minimum number I would have to put down for a simple railroad on a flat plain. Well I nearly lost all of my marbles! I would need the help from some other councilors and their influence to convince the capitalist and aristocrats to invest more on these things.
 
Jako473 said:
Sir, could we work collectively on the matter of the railroad lines running through Transylvania? After my adviser just told me the minimum number I would have to put down for a simple railroad on a flat plain. Well I nearly lost all of my marbles! I would need the help from some other councilors and their influence to convince the capitalist and aristocrats to invest more on these things.
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I am willing to work with you.
 
Guilu said:
((You have a peculiar use of first-person singular, then.))
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((I'm ill today, so I may not be quite focused enough to really make sense and for that I apologise. The Mocenigo family was one of the oldest, wealthiest, most prestigious families in Venetian history. Medici/Rockefeller rich except quite possibly richer. However I suppose that it may be a bit of a strain on the chequebook to find the entire line though. And I'm afraid I'm not understanding your 'first-person singular' comment..))
 
Ab Ovo said:
I suppose I'll fund it from Padua to Istria; and then the co-operative can assist in funding from there to Cattoro...
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That would be acceptable to us, as well as a separate co-operative possible administrating the more northern inland Croatian line? ((With all this cost, half of Croatia may end up owning the line :p))
 
Thoctar said:
That would be acceptable to us, as well as a separate co-operative possible administrating the more northern inland Croatian line? ((With all this cost, half of Croatia may end up owning the line :p))
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I believe the Fire Line is in President Nikolic's hands. You would have to negotiate with him on the matter. Now, as for the census, has that begun? Venezia would like to begin reestablishing a Venetian presence and administering her new citizens as quickly as possible...
((I hope Venetian deaths in the region don't force Venice to bring in the boys in blue to the Condominium... Croats were always a favoured subject of target practice :p))
 
Ab Ovo said:
((I'm ill today, so I may not be quite focused enough to really make sense and for that I apologise. The Mocenigo family was one of the oldest, wealthiest, most prestigious families in Venetian history. Medici/Rockefeller rich except quite possibly richer. However I suppose that it may be a bit of a strain on the chequebook to find the entire line though. And I'm afraid I'm not understanding your 'first-person singular' comment..))
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((I was referring to this, where you apparently bought it all on your own before saying that the money was coming out of the council's pocket : ))
Ab Ovo said:
I've already bought the rights to the Water Line, Councillor.
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((I guess I need to check my history then, that's quite a bit of money.))

My fellow congressmen, I believe all of us are tired of systematically dealing with issues regarding minorities within states borders, as are our constituents who look to us to provide them with a prosperous Danubia. I've just had the greatest day in quite a while now that the Dalmatian question is finally answered, after so many years of unsuccessful negociations and obstructionnism. I would like this burden to be lifted off our shoulders once and for all, and it can be done, with the Territorial Integrity amendment. We just need a few more votes for it to pass, and I believe it would be in everybody's interest. For once, make liars of those who say this Congress is mired in petty bickering.

Ab Ovo said:
I believe the Fire Line is in President Nikolic's hands. You would have to negotiate with him on the matter. Now, as for the census, has that begun? Venezia would like to begin reestablishing a Venetian presence and administering her new citizens as quickly as possible...
((I hope Venetian deaths in the region don't force Venice to bring in the boys in blue to the Condominium... Croats were always a favoured subject of target practice :p))
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I believe the census is being put into motion, but I expect the process to take months, what with all the paperwork..
((Wait for the 1852 update!))
 
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Ab Ovo said:
I believe the Fire Line is in President Nikolic's hands. You would have to negotiate with him on the matter. Now, as for the census, has that begun? Venezia would like to begin reestablishing a Venetian presence and administering her new citizens as quickly as possible...
((I hope Venetian deaths in the region don't force Venice to bring in the boys in blue to the Condominium... Croats were always a favoured subject of target practice :p))
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((Yes, but with the Serbs we have the population advantage, and if you treated the people better then maybe you wouldn't have a problem~)) Remember, it is a combined presence, not yours alone, and hopefully my participation will help quell these at least somewhat. It would be especially helpful if the Industrial wWorkers' Bill of Rights were passed to calm dissent.
 
Guilu said:
((I was referring to this, where you apparently bought it all on your own before saying that the money was coming out of the council's pocket : ))

((I guess I need to check my history then, that's quite a bit of money.))
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((The wage money is; not the rest which is indeed coming from Domenico.))

My fellow congressmen, I believe all of us are tired of systematically dealing with issues regarding minorities within states borders, as are our constituents who look to us to provide them with a prosperous Danubia. I've just had the greatest day in quite a while now that the Dalmatian question is finally answered, after so many years of unsuccessful negotiations and obstructionism. I would like this burden to be lifted off our shoulders once and for all, and it can be done, with the Territorial Integrity amendment. We just need a few more votes for it to pass, and I believe it would be in everybody's interest. For once, make liars of those who say this Congress is mired in petty bickering.
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Hear, hear! To a prosperous Danubia and a peaceful Istria and Dalmatian Isles!

Thoctar said:
((Yes, but with the Serbs we have the population advantage, and if you treated the people better then maybe you wouldn't have a problem~)) Remember, it is a combined presence, not yours alone, and hopefully my participation will help quell these at least somewhat. It would be especially helpful if the Industrial Workers' Bill of Rights were passed to calm dissent.
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((Bah, we treat the workers fairly and equitably.))

I of course remember that, Councillor, but I'm assuming the Croatian government already has some wort of presence there. Venice needs to actively re-establish herself; for long long missed and in exile from the region. And I hope you've told your constituents that it was Venezia who first supported the Bill of Rights on a federal level...
 
I also show my support to the Beige Line running through Galicia to Transylvania. Also, if everyone in Council agrees I will sign the Mutual Agreement towards the Establishment of the Veneto-Croatian Condominium of Istria and the Dalmatian Isles into law which puts an official end to the Dalmatian Question.

~ President Vlado Nikolić
 
Well gentlemen, it seems much concerning the railroads has been discussed in my absence. Has an agreement been reached on war with Russia, though?

I would also like to congratulate Councillor's Mocenigo and Obradovic in peacefully resolving the Dalmatian Question. It is good to see unity being achieved in such an issue.

~ Victor Kraus, CSN
 
NikoHoI3 said:
Also, if everyone in Council agrees I will sign the Mutual Agreement towards the Establishment of the Veneto-Croatian Condominium of Istria and the Dalmatian Isles into law which puts an official end to the Dalmatian Question.

~ President Vlado Nikolić
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President Nikolic, while we of course appreciate your support for the Condominium; it is not a Federal law to sign. Rather, an internal agreement between our two states which already has the force of law within the region.

Tapscott said:
Has an agreement been reached on war with Russia, though?

I would also like to congratulate Councillor's Mocenigo and Obradovic in peacefully resolving the Dalmatian Question. It is good to see unity being achieved in such an issue.

~ Victor Kraus, CSN
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I believe, Signore Cavaliere, that the Council is generally agreed in favour of war with Russia; with the sad exception of Conte Bethlen. And the issue could not have been solved, indeed, never would have become an issue in the first place without your copious support to my predecessor and myself Signore. Thank you.
 
Tapscott said:
Well gentlemen, it seems much concerning the railroads has been discussed in my absence. Has an agreement been reached on war with Russia, though?

I would also like to congratulate Councillor's Mocenigo and Obradovic in peacefully resolving the Dalmatian Question. It is good to see unity being achieved in such an issue.

~ Victor Kraus, CSN
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We all generally agree to defend rather than push into russia. I would like to note though that there hasn't been an impasse about my naval blockade.
 
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