I would say that a war with Pontus and with Egypt is in order ... if OFC the Populares do not decide to give you some military issues 
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Well it was a sort of in-joke (as Stuyvesant has indicated), but ... I've just started to play the period that will form the 4th chapter and the first thing that happened was a huge horde of Britons have arrived in Calais ... Its obv either (a) revenge for my comment or (b) an early version of a 'booze-cruise'
Well, to be fair, it is Scotland we're talking about - loki has first-hand experience of the place, so he is exceedingly well-placed to evaluate their threat (current or future) to the Romans.
Impressive gains. The oddly nostalgic person hiding somewhere inside me is getting quite excited to see the Roman borders starting to take their familiar shapes.
Yep, I'll be very pleased with myself if at the end of the game I have something very close to the Empire's borders ... but I fear that Egypt in particular is going to take some convincing that that is a good idea?
I can't touch Masillia, I've tested it and unless I can encourage them to break the alliance it would cost me -3 stability to ever DoW, so they are quite reliable allies and I'm leaving them be.
In a way with the Seleucids its their recovery that is remarkable. They started with about 10-15 regiments, but I guess they had rich, own culture provinces and have done their usual trick of raising lots of mercenaries. They were doing rather well till *ahem* the Egyptians stabbed them in the back and I stepped in to keep the 'peace', but we'll come to that fairly soon
So, it's the Seleucids going down and, for the most part, Rome and Egypt taking advantage. Despite the army numbers seen in the previous update, this seems to be progressing towards a two horse race. Can't wait to see the details.
Hehe, the Picts certainly are threatening to take over the known world!
Gotta keep the Picts under careful observation ...
Well, its a case I think of one more war with the Seleucids then they are a minor player. At the moment Pontus is being a loyal ally, so I'll leave them. I am rather dreading/excited at the clash with Egypt though. Whoever wins the first war should gain dominance in both N Africa and the East.
I would say that a war with Pontus and with Egypt is in order ... if OFC the Populares do not decide to give you some military issues
that is the problem in all my plans. As above, I've just started the gameplay that wil form the 4th chapter and am doing all I can to reduce their power. Their problem is all their ambitions are 'become ruler' or 'X must die', when X is one of my few decent generals, so I may need to accept a Populist civil war and then get back to worrying over the East.
The Gallic Wars 679-681 AUC
Even though the focus of the Senate had shifted firmly to the East, events in Gaul drew attention back to Rome's northern frontier. At the start of this period, Rome's provinces in the south and centre were the target of frequent raids from the tribes on the Atlantic coast.
The first of these occured in winter 679 as a horde of Menapil invaded Aedui.
At the time no legions were in the region so the 1st was hastily redeployed from the Danube and the 2nd from Spain. The 1st was at full strength due to the recent decision to replace many of the citizen cohorts with mercenaries. If the latter lacked a deep loyalty to Rome, at least they allowed the Republic to deploy the military force it needed to both wage war in the East and to protect the long Danubian frontier.
Suspecting they had little time before the legions arrived, the Barbarians had tried to storm the fort and were repulsed.
By late January the two legions advanced into the province and by the end of February the siege had been lifted. For the rest of 680 a sequence of small battles occured between the barbarians and the two legions as slowly Roman control was restored.
One branch of the tribe was surrounded and destroyed at Ruteni when a legion was ferried in by sea from North Africa. Taken by surprise, the Gauls cast down their weapons and fled but few, if any, made it back to their homelands.
As Rome asserted its power, a new colony was formed at Cadurci. This relieved the threat to the Mediterranean coastal towns and brought more of South Gaul under Roman civilisation.
However, not everything went Rome's way. The 1st and 2nd were caught in an ambush along the broad river valleys of Aquitaine in late August and only just escaped complete destruction.
However, they were able to retreat to Volcae where the fresh 14th joined them.
The result was a major victory as the Gauls were routed.
The campaign dragged on all winter as the tribes were beaten in a series of skirmishes. Finally there were brought to bay in Volcae in late winter 681 and here the Gauls were destroyed in a one sided battle.
For this victory that secured peace in Gaul, Curio was granted a well earnt triumph
And a new colony was established in Aquitaine.
However, even as Rome celebrated a major victory that consolidate her power in Southen Gaul, the Republic was rocked to its foundations. Lucius Cinna and his third legion rebelled on the lower Danube. For a second time Rome was plunged into the horrors of Civil War.
Even though the focus of the Senate had shifted firmly to the East, events in Gaul drew attention back to Rome's northern frontier. At the start of this period, Rome's provinces in the south and centre were the target of frequent raids from the tribes on the Atlantic coast.
The first of these occured in winter 679 as a horde of Menapil invaded Aedui.
At the time no legions were in the region so the 1st was hastily redeployed from the Danube and the 2nd from Spain. The 1st was at full strength due to the recent decision to replace many of the citizen cohorts with mercenaries. If the latter lacked a deep loyalty to Rome, at least they allowed the Republic to deploy the military force it needed to both wage war in the East and to protect the long Danubian frontier.
Suspecting they had little time before the legions arrived, the Barbarians had tried to storm the fort and were repulsed.
By late January the two legions advanced into the province and by the end of February the siege had been lifted. For the rest of 680 a sequence of small battles occured between the barbarians and the two legions as slowly Roman control was restored.
One branch of the tribe was surrounded and destroyed at Ruteni when a legion was ferried in by sea from North Africa. Taken by surprise, the Gauls cast down their weapons and fled but few, if any, made it back to their homelands.
As Rome asserted its power, a new colony was formed at Cadurci. This relieved the threat to the Mediterranean coastal towns and brought more of South Gaul under Roman civilisation.
However, not everything went Rome's way. The 1st and 2nd were caught in an ambush along the broad river valleys of Aquitaine in late August and only just escaped complete destruction.
However, they were able to retreat to Volcae where the fresh 14th joined them.
The result was a major victory as the Gauls were routed.
The campaign dragged on all winter as the tribes were beaten in a series of skirmishes. Finally there were brought to bay in Volcae in late winter 681 and here the Gauls were destroyed in a one sided battle.
For this victory that secured peace in Gaul, Curio was granted a well earnt triumph
And a new colony was established in Aquitaine.
However, even as Rome celebrated a major victory that consolidate her power in Southen Gaul, the Republic was rocked to its foundations. Lucius Cinna and his third legion rebelled on the lower Danube. For a second time Rome was plunged into the horrors of Civil War.
Be careful how you mock the Picts, or Lucius Cinna will be the least of Rome's problems!!!
Nice work but another civil war hope it's not to bad.
A few more colonies and the west will be secure till another civil war?:unsure:
A few more colonies and the west will be secure till another civil war?:unsure:
Another civil war? I'm actually kind of eager for a dictaorship to be established, but I would miss the bickering of the senate... Such conflicting emotions! Just conquer everyone then decide how Rome shall be governed.
Well, we already know that there were not much of provinces supporting Cinna and that only one legion got with him And besides you pretty much "forced" him to rebel , making a triumph to him when he had dismal loyalty numbers ... . So unless Cinna called Egypt to help him ( yeah, right ... ) , there is not much to be said besides that a civil war is not good for a overstretched manpower "reserve" like yours ...
And besides you pretty much "forced" him to rebel , making a triumph to him when he had dismal loyalty numbers ... . So unless Cinna called Egypt to help him ( yeah, right ... ) , there is not much to be said besides that a civil war is not good for a overstretched manpower "reserve" like yours ...
Two years and 10,000+ dead to hunt down that Barbarian invasion? Not pretty... But at least you got them in the end and you expanded nicely towards the Atlantic. Sooner or later, some areas of the Empire Republic will be safe from the barbarian threat.
I believe from your introduction (and Ricardo Rolo's comment above that the civil war with Cinna is a manageable affair. So I'll cast my glance wider and wait to see what follows after Cinna's inevitable defeat.
PS: Those dead legionaries/mercenaries, how many months of manpower did that cost you? And when it comes to mercenaries, is there a generous pool, or are the pickings pretty slim?
I believe from your introduction (and Ricardo Rolo's comment above that the civil war with Cinna is a manageable affair. So I'll cast my glance wider and wait to see what follows after Cinna's inevitable defeat.
PS: Those dead legionaries/mercenaries, how many months of manpower did that cost you? And when it comes to mercenaries, is there a generous pool, or are the pickings pretty slim?
The previous update first pic showed the provinces that followed Cinna and the fourth paragraph described succinctly how that civil war went out. In a sense, loki backtracked a little in this update to show the Gallic wars and colonization that preceded Cinna's revolt ...
Be careful how you mock the Picts, or Lucius Cinna will be the least of Rome's problems!!!
especially when they have that rather fetching blue colour
This one is quite good. Between units I can disband and the equivalent of 3 fresh legions I come out stronger than I went in. This is the only civil war in this batch of updates, so yes, the west is mostly a relaxed tour across Gaul, its all about the East.
I did have the dictatorship option at the end. Decided it hadn't been serious enough to justify such strong measures ... yet
Well, we already know that there were not much of provinces supporting Cinna and that only one legion got with him
it was Curio (Gaul) who got the triumph, but I've used jealousy as the reason for Cinna's revolt. Oddly I gain manpower, in total I had about 25 units pop up (mostly those single 'velite' cohorts) that I could disband and the equivalent of about 3 legions of cohorts loyal to someone or the other. I was actually dragging it out towards the end in the hope of more free units being created.
I'm on about +1800 manpower per month which means that unless I find stuff to disband, its getting steadily worse. At the end of the 2nd Numidian war I disbanded almost every none owned cohort and then re-organised what was left. At the end of this war I repeated the exercise and started raising mercenaries. Since I have access to so many recruiting areas (I think there are separate pools for Spain, Gaul, Italy, N Africa, Greece and the East) I can actually raise quite a few. I then disband them if they get too badly mauled and just replace them with fresh. Money is a minor constraint, so substituting cash for manpower is very attractive.
I'll organise this chapter more linear than some of the earlier ones. The material actually falls better into a discussion organised by time rather than by location. So the Gallic expansion preceeded the Civil War, stops and then starts again. I'll do a single (maybe 2, I need to look at how complex it was) post that crosses the entire period for domestic politics though.
Next post will be the last for a while. I'm off climbing nice snowy sharp looking things from this weekend for about 15 days. I am also utterly captivated by playing Alea Jacta Est with Vespesian having just squashed the Jewish revolt, so any game time between now and then probably won't go on playing Rome ... sorry.
Cinna's Revolt, 681-683 AUC
Cinna's revolt took the Senate by surprise since it was not connected to the usual factional in-fighting.
Cinna had been in charge of the 3rd legion for some 5 years during which time he had won a series of small, but important, victories on the lower Danube. Some have suggested that his bid for power was the result of the Senate awarding Curio a triumph for his victories in Gaul. Others suggest that he had been promised support by the other legates on the Danubian frontier with the goal of capturing Rome before either the Gallic or the Eastern legions could react.
Whatever the truth, the revolt was largely confined to Northern Greece and the Balkans and the Ebro valley provinces in Spain. Some historians suggest the latter was in fact a separate revolt that just happened to occur at the same time. In effect Cinna pitched the army against the state and this defined the nature of his challenge. It also doomed it as almost none of the political classes were prepared to back him.
(the Danubian revolt)
(the Spanish revolt)
In the event, although a number of garrisons joined him, the rest of the army stayed loyal. Indeed in Spain, loyal towns such as Saguntum quickly offered their provincial units to the Senate.
Fearing a return to the private armies that had become a feature of the latter stages of Catulus' revolt the Senate quickly disbanded the unit [1]. The legion in Spain, plus one of the Gallic legions was enough to steadily retake the main cities.
In an attempt to link up with all the rebellious towns, Cinna made the fatal error of breaking up the 3rd legion. It was clear he expected each part to receive significant reinforcements but in reality he allowed the loyal legions to defeat each section of his army piecemeal.
An important battle was at Taulanti in early 682 where the loyalists won a vital, if rather bloody, victory
In some ways it could be argued the rebels won, but they were forced to fall back from the fort and another of their strongholds came under siege. By May, their forces were brought to battle in Scodra where they suffered another serious defeat.
Shortly after this, the remnants of the 3rd legion were destroyed, having tried to flee north.
By October 682, the revolt was limited to a small number of isolated fortresses.
Each was under siege and the rebels no longer even had the remnants of a field army. However, many were defended by renegade Roman cohorts and the various sieges were long drawn out affairs. Knowing they could expect no mercy, the defenders showed considerable ingenuity. Equally having failed with a purely military strategy, Cinna reached out for potential allies. In southern Spain, in July 683 his emissaries provoked a slave revolt in the vital silver and iron mines in the region.
However, it was too little too late. His over-emphasis on a military revolt had sealed his fate when only 1 legion followed him.
Captured, Cinna was publicly executed
As were most of his senior commanders, and his wife was banished.
The Republic had survived its second civil war. This time it had been less widespread and the economic dislocation much less serious. Even so, briefly, some discussed the advantages of adopting a dictatorship rather than carry on with the oligarchic republic.
The idea quickly faded away as normal governance resumed. That Cinna had offered so little real threat, and that his revolt was not part of the Senatorial factional struggle, undermined any support for more robust, less democratic, leadership.
[1] – this was the best single thing that happened, as they had no loyalty I managed in effect to gain 20,000 free manpower as a result.
Cinna's revolt took the Senate by surprise since it was not connected to the usual factional in-fighting.
Cinna had been in charge of the 3rd legion for some 5 years during which time he had won a series of small, but important, victories on the lower Danube. Some have suggested that his bid for power was the result of the Senate awarding Curio a triumph for his victories in Gaul. Others suggest that he had been promised support by the other legates on the Danubian frontier with the goal of capturing Rome before either the Gallic or the Eastern legions could react.
Whatever the truth, the revolt was largely confined to Northern Greece and the Balkans and the Ebro valley provinces in Spain. Some historians suggest the latter was in fact a separate revolt that just happened to occur at the same time. In effect Cinna pitched the army against the state and this defined the nature of his challenge. It also doomed it as almost none of the political classes were prepared to back him.
(the Danubian revolt)
(the Spanish revolt)
In the event, although a number of garrisons joined him, the rest of the army stayed loyal. Indeed in Spain, loyal towns such as Saguntum quickly offered their provincial units to the Senate.
Fearing a return to the private armies that had become a feature of the latter stages of Catulus' revolt the Senate quickly disbanded the unit [1]. The legion in Spain, plus one of the Gallic legions was enough to steadily retake the main cities.
In an attempt to link up with all the rebellious towns, Cinna made the fatal error of breaking up the 3rd legion. It was clear he expected each part to receive significant reinforcements but in reality he allowed the loyal legions to defeat each section of his army piecemeal.
An important battle was at Taulanti in early 682 where the loyalists won a vital, if rather bloody, victory
In some ways it could be argued the rebels won, but they were forced to fall back from the fort and another of their strongholds came under siege. By May, their forces were brought to battle in Scodra where they suffered another serious defeat.
Shortly after this, the remnants of the 3rd legion were destroyed, having tried to flee north.
By October 682, the revolt was limited to a small number of isolated fortresses.
Each was under siege and the rebels no longer even had the remnants of a field army. However, many were defended by renegade Roman cohorts and the various sieges were long drawn out affairs. Knowing they could expect no mercy, the defenders showed considerable ingenuity. Equally having failed with a purely military strategy, Cinna reached out for potential allies. In southern Spain, in July 683 his emissaries provoked a slave revolt in the vital silver and iron mines in the region.
However, it was too little too late. His over-emphasis on a military revolt had sealed his fate when only 1 legion followed him.
Captured, Cinna was publicly executed
As were most of his senior commanders, and his wife was banished.
The Republic had survived its second civil war. This time it had been less widespread and the economic dislocation much less serious. Even so, briefly, some discussed the advantages of adopting a dictatorship rather than carry on with the oligarchic republic.
The idea quickly faded away as normal governance resumed. That Cinna had offered so little real threat, and that his revolt was not part of the Senatorial factional struggle, undermined any support for more robust, less democratic, leadership.
[1] – this was the best single thing that happened, as they had no loyalty I managed in effect to gain 20,000 free manpower as a result.
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That civil war didn't amount to much - sure, it was an inconvenience, sure, it dragged out for two years and sure, as always you lost thousands of troops... But having said all that, it never developed into a serious threat. In fact, I wonder if you came ahead, manpower-wise, with that fortuitous random army you got to disband for 20,000 manpower.
Role-playing it, there doesn't seem much need to go dictatorship yet. Perhaps later, when the Eastern threat grows more serious?
Have fun in whatever jagged area of the world you'll be frequenting for the next two weeks and we'll see you when you get back.
Role-playing it, there doesn't seem much need to go dictatorship yet. Perhaps later, when the Eastern threat grows more serious?
Have fun in whatever jagged area of the world you'll be frequenting for the next two weeks and we'll see you when you get back.
Oh dear, I've always just been annoyed when those weak units pop up and you have to pay to disband them, it never crossed my mind that the men go back to the manpower pool. o Of course!
As for the civil war itself, seems to have been a minor enough affair this time - quite simple to take care of when you have no other conflicts to worry about.
o Of course!As for the civil war itself, seems to have been a minor enough affair this time - quite simple to take care of when you have no other conflicts to worry about.
Huh that was a piddly civil war. I can see why you hesitated from turning into a dictatorship, when there doesn't seem to be any need to. Yet.
Just a reminder to vote in the current round of the ACAs, you know you want to and here is in an easy to click link:
That civil war didn't amount to much - sure, it was an inconvenience, sure, it dragged out for two years and sure, as always you lost thousands of troops... But having said all that, it never developed into a serious threat. In fact, I wonder if you came ahead, manpower-wise, with that fortuitous random army you got to disband for 20,000 manpower.
Role-playing it, there doesn't seem much need to go dictatorship yet. Perhaps later, when the Eastern threat grows more serious?
Have fun in whatever jagged area of the world you'll be frequenting for the next two weeks and we'll see you when you get back.
I probably broke even on manpower which given I lost a legion to revolt at the start was not bad. I took my time over the final sieges as I was hoping for more easy to dismiss units to spawn, and if not, well the ones with in-buiit loyalty at least allowed me to disband other units in turn.
I was worried at the start with the legion in revolt but overall it was pretty easy.
Great fun, second week in particular was a good reminder why late/out of season climbing in the Alps can be so much fun - quiet, cold and you get menaced by the ibexes
Oh dear, I've always just been annoyed when those weak units pop up and you have to pay to disband them, it never crossed my mind that the men go back to the manpower pool.
As for the civil war itself, seems to have been a minor enough affair this time - quite simple to take care of when you have no other conflicts to worry about.
Aye, when you think that manpower is the real shortage for Rome in this game, you are almost tempted to set off a few civil wars in periods when internationally things are quiet ... well almost tempted
More or less my mindset. I regard the dictatorship option as abandoning the Republic and I'll only do that in this AAR when its clear that there is no other way to manage the state
Just a reminder to vote in the current round of the ACAs, you know you want to and here is in an easy to click link:
The Gallic Wars 684-693 AUC
Rome’s renewed interest in her Gallic frontier had been sparked by the barbarian incursions into the Mediterranean provinces. These provided valuable trade goods and protected the land connection between Italy and Spain. Equally the provinces gained in 657 had proven to be loyal. Thus the Senate ceased to see them as the natural frontier that protected more valuable provinces in Italy and Spain and instead as an integral part of the Republic.
Cinna’s revolt had put any plans for their protection on hold but even though the main attention of the Senate was now to the east, the security of the Gallic provinces remained an important issue. Thus in early 684 it was decided to bring the settled tribes of central and northern Gaul into the Republic.
As with the earlier campaign in 657, the fighting was brief and one sided and the campaigns were mostly a series of long sieges.
The war was over by May 685 at which stage the Aulerci ceded their recent gains in Parisii and Nervii and agreed to become a client state, protecting Rome’s flank against the threat from Brittany.
In turn, Rome moved to integrate the provinces held by the Atrebates which gave Rome a presence on the north coast by late 685.
By early 686, the last settled tribe, the Eburones, were offered the chance to embrace Roman rule. Rather misguidedly they opted to fight
The actual campaign was as uneventful but at the same time there was both a revolt by the recently conquered Atrebates and a major German incursion across the Rhine
The Eburones surrendered in the summer of 686
And by mid-November both the revolt and the barbarian incursion had been crushed.
However, this set the trend for the next 7 years. Typical of this was the revolt in Aquitaine in late 690
Although this revolt was easily crushed, the new provinces saw little peace. A sequence of internal revolts and external excursions forced the Senate to keep the 8th and 14th legions in the area on a permanent basis.
Again Rome found itself holding new gains that brought new demands. The frontier had been pushed north but lacked natural defences. The desire to base it on the Rhine and to secure NW Gaul was clear. What was lacking were the means to achieve these goals.
Rome’s renewed interest in her Gallic frontier had been sparked by the barbarian incursions into the Mediterranean provinces. These provided valuable trade goods and protected the land connection between Italy and Spain. Equally the provinces gained in 657 had proven to be loyal. Thus the Senate ceased to see them as the natural frontier that protected more valuable provinces in Italy and Spain and instead as an integral part of the Republic.
Cinna’s revolt had put any plans for their protection on hold but even though the main attention of the Senate was now to the east, the security of the Gallic provinces remained an important issue. Thus in early 684 it was decided to bring the settled tribes of central and northern Gaul into the Republic.
As with the earlier campaign in 657, the fighting was brief and one sided and the campaigns were mostly a series of long sieges.
The war was over by May 685 at which stage the Aulerci ceded their recent gains in Parisii and Nervii and agreed to become a client state, protecting Rome’s flank against the threat from Brittany.
In turn, Rome moved to integrate the provinces held by the Atrebates which gave Rome a presence on the north coast by late 685.
By early 686, the last settled tribe, the Eburones, were offered the chance to embrace Roman rule. Rather misguidedly they opted to fight
The actual campaign was as uneventful but at the same time there was both a revolt by the recently conquered Atrebates and a major German incursion across the Rhine
The Eburones surrendered in the summer of 686
And by mid-November both the revolt and the barbarian incursion had been crushed.
However, this set the trend for the next 7 years. Typical of this was the revolt in Aquitaine in late 690
Although this revolt was easily crushed, the new provinces saw little peace. A sequence of internal revolts and external excursions forced the Senate to keep the 8th and 14th legions in the area on a permanent basis.
Again Rome found itself holding new gains that brought new demands. The frontier had been pushed north but lacked natural defences. The desire to base it on the Rhine and to secure NW Gaul was clear. What was lacking were the means to achieve these goals.
Sounds like a good call, I read somewhere that Armorica can be a bit of a rough place for Romans.
Sounds like a good call, I read somewhere that Armorica can be a bit of a rough place for Romans.
If I remember my source material correctly, I believe that loki will need at least three legions to secure that one place alone.
Examining that picture, the shocking truth emerges: the Parisii were making common cause with the Picts, known enemies of all mankind - it's like the WMD in Iraq - you can't wait for the... er... <struggles to find an apt analogy between marauding barbarian Scots and nuclear mushroom clouds> Well, you simply can't wait for that threat to materialize and, loot, pillage and murder a path all the way to Rome. If ever there was a reason for pre-emptive intervention, the Parisii just gave you one.
Sounds like a good call, I read somewhere that Armorica can be a bit of a rough place for Romans.
Just 3? I fear you underestimate the challenge, I've seen the secret scrolls that show what those people do with a menhir.
Examining that picture, the shocking truth emerges: the Parisii were making common cause with the Picts, known enemies of all mankind - it's like the WMD in Iraq - you can't wait for the... er... <struggles to find an apt analogy between marauding barbarian Scots and nuclear mushroom clouds> Well, you simply can't wait for that threat to materialize and, loot, pillage and murder a path all the way to Rome. If ever there was a reason for pre-emptive intervention, the Parisii just gave you one.
Yep, see that is why I properly identified the Picts as a major threat. I mean someone has to stop the spread of Irn Bru to France and it has obviously fallen to me to protect them ... from themselves