• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
good to see your Hapsburgs are building their Empire in the traditional manner - ie why go to war when you can arrange a marriage instead. Interesting exploration of Louis' motivations but even so I'm surprised that Henri will ever be accepted?

He'll be accepted by the group of French courtiers who supported Louis' moves towards the Hapsburg Empire, but the resistance against him will be far reaching and persistent (an explanation for the relatively quiet 20s, 30s, and 40s).

All...Those...Hapsburgs... "Assuming Fetal position"

EDIT: is that a massive Austria going from the Adriatic to the Black sea? A war with that will be quite a show.

It will! I didn't want to play past the ascension of Louis XII, but yes I imagine a war against all those Hapsburgs is going to hurt.

More fascinating stuff. Excited for the civil war

Thank you!

And thank you to all of you readers! I'll probably have a post about the civil war later tonight.
 
LordsofFrance-2.png


The League of the Commonwealth and the Burgundian Succession

Part One: Incitement to Rebellion

As I said in my last entry, the succession of Henri II to the French throne was highly controversial. During his first coronation, less than half of the Court showed up, going instead to Moulins, the capital of Bourbonnais, to go to an all together different coronation: the coronation of the pretender King Jean II.

edward-the-black-prince-1-sized.jpg

Jean II, known as the Great Pretender by his foes and the Great Inheritor by his allies

King Jean II had, by 1518, been betrayed twice by his family. The first betrayal, by his father, cost him the title of Sovereign Duke of Bourbon. However, he was married to Rosette Valois in 1510 and was first in line for the succession to the French throne for most of the 1510s. A second betrayal by Louis XI led to him losing that title to the Flemish Hapsburg Henri.

The thing is that Jean II likely had a better claim to the French crown than Henri--he was connected not only to the Valois and Bourbon families, but had a weak claim to the de Poitou line. With links to nearly every great French family, Jean II was widely followed, especially amongst French officers.

This point needs to be explored, because it showed the dangers of the French army academy to the degree that Henri II attempted to politically isolate it throughout his reign. The French proto-nationalism created by the academy had become far more volatile since its creation by Francois I and Armand de Villenueve. Furthermore, de Villenueve's death and the taking over of the academy by extra-courtly forces made the academy far more independent.

By 1515, the academy was controlled by the French nationalist Alphonse de Saint Chaumond, who was already teaching sedition against Louis XI for his failures against the English. These claims of sedition became full scale incitement to rebellion after the coronation of Henri II. Alongside Jean II and more than three quarters of the French officer corps, the League of True Frenchmen of the Commonwealth (Ligue de vrai Français du Commonwealth, or League of the Commonwealth for short). Together with the sizable levies of each nobleman-officer, the League was soon able to form an army of more than 50,000 soldiers.

But the League of the Commonwealth needed more than officers and soldiers. The weaponry required to adequately equip such an army would have been too expensive for even 500 major French noblemen to afford. Where could this money have come from? As was revealed in 1520, many of the weapons (particularly the rebel army's arquebuses and artillery) came from the foundries of the Duchy of Burgundy.

Pikeman_1668.png

A pikemen of the League of the Commonwealth, using the more modern equipment of a Burgundian pikeman

The Duchy of Burgundy had, at this point, been controlled by a Regency Council for over a decade. But in 1518, the young Duke Francois was sick and nearly dead, which would leave Burgundy with no Duke and no heir. The possibility horrified the Council, who knew that they would assuredly be integrated into the Hapsburg Empire. They had one chance left--King Jean II. Burgundy's records show that Jean had promised a large degree of autonomy to the Council when he inherited the realm, in exchange for tens of thousands of pikes, muskets, and suits of armor.

Well armed, numerous, and well led, the League of the Commonwealth was ready, by the Coronation of Henri II, for a full-scale war.
 
Last edited:
Ok, so how many men does France have that are loyal to the Hapsburg monarch?
 
Looks like this is going to be painful and drawnout.

As I said, it's a 2 year long civil war, putting it at a similar level as the War of Artois or the War of the League of Vendee'. And then, those wars were 'won', this one...

Ok, so how many men does France have that are loyal to the Hapsburg monarch?

The French Army is slightly bigger at this point, although the League of the Commonwealth is mostly concentrated into a 30,000 man army which has 11,000 cavalry on its own. Also the French army has fewer generals but most of her high ranking generals stayed with the government.
 
Hm, it seems that Henri II's coronation happened in 1515 and the war happened until 1518. The inheritance of Burgundy happened in 1519, and the annexation of Provence happened sometime in 1520. I'm going to integrate all of these events into one story about chasing the last of the rebels, but be aware that I'm messing with the numbers. Going to edit my last post the moment I'm done with this one.

LordsofFrance-2.png


The Most Perfect Pretender and the War of the Commonwealth


The War of the Commonwealth, between Henri II and the pretender Jean II, was the first of many civil wars which rocked France during the early modern era. The battles between Loyalists and Imperials (the terminology of the war is very difficult: both sides attempted to don the term 'Loyalists' upon themselves, so I will call the pro-government side by the name that the loyalists called them, IE "L'Imperials") occurred mainly in the French South, where disgruntled noblemen (worried because Henri II looked to change the pro-Southern paradigm of the last 2 French Kings) rallied to the League of the Commonwealth.

But even though the largest Commonwealth force was in the South, the Civil War wasn't just a regional battle, with north against south. The unraveling of the French order occurred throughout the Kingdom, turning many problems--the high taxes of the Northeast, the nationalist forces still in Brittany, and the unintegrated provinces in Flanders--from minor issues into incipient revolts. Henri II was coronated into an ongoing disaster, with the very real possibility that the country would fragment back into its constituent parts.

EU3_59-8.jpg

I think that this is a 'minor' noble opposition. These events have a low chance of popping up whenever a king dies

Henri's response to these possible calamities reflects very highly on his character and his ability to solve problems nonviolently and without the flashy speechifying of Francois I or Louis XI. Henri, rather than making a large speech before the Estates or preemptively attacking the centers of discontent, brought the self-proclaimed leaders of the Bretons, Northerners, and Waloons together in Paris, and each offered them concessions in return for their support in the war and afterwards. The Bretons would be given large tax breaks, the Northerners would be exempted from conscription, and Henri would unilaterally lower all tariffs on Burgundian goods going into Vlaandern and Calais.

These weren't the only concessions, though. Henri would set up a quota system for entrance into the French Army Academy, with requirements that 20/50/10% of entrants be Breton/Northern/Walloon, respectively. This was a huge transition from the Academy's earlier demographics: Southerners had long seen the Academy as their ticket to prestige and importance within the French government, and even after the War they were given a far smaller share of Academy positions and were generally kept out of government. This isn't to say that the Academy remained a method for advancement into the upper echelons of the French government, but it is true that Henri II governed stolidly from the North and for the North (with one notable exception which I will note later), going so far to going back to recruiting expensive German and Italian mercenaries to replace Northern conscripts.

The Breton concessions didn't work. A large part of the problem in Brittany was that there was no leadership connected to the Breton people. The Breton clergy, which were the only people who actually had any power over the peasantry, weren't really connected to the larger French Catholic hierarchy and were only responsible for their individual parishes, and no material gains could really convert them from their dislike of the French crown. Thus, though the more urbanized areas of Brittany were won over by Henri II's tax cuts, the more rural areas of Brest and Dol rose up in a nationalist revolt, worsening the situation caused by the League of the Commonwealth.

EU3_61-10.jpg

The revolts in France by 1516. Note that the Commander in Chief of the Breton front was Simon de Maurepas, veteran of the Burgundian Wars, while Pierre de Fournay was the commander of the Southern front.

The military situation was even worse. While the high ranking veterans of the Burgundian Wars remained on the French side, nearly 70% of the lower level officers defected to the League during 1515 and 1516. There were only two generals who retained most of their officerial staffs, the Commanders-in-Cheif Simon de Maurepas and Pierre de Fournay. De Maurepas had experience as the Commander in Chief of multiple fronts through the Burgundian Wars, while de Fournay had been in charge of the Flanderian front during the War of Vlaandern. Pierre de Fournay was a logistical expert, and with his highly experienced staff, he was able to move from his post in Nantes to the Southern Front within the month.

The biggest problem in the Southern front was the massive concentration of troops in the province of Limousin. From the League's headquarters in Toulouse, Jean II had amassed an army which amounted to 30,000 men, which he brought to Limousin and began a siege of the province's major fortresses. The size of this army meant that none of the French armies, even the 15,000 man Armee Royale, would be able to fight it in battle. A lesser general would have thrown his men into the fray, hoping for a break in the Loyalist line. But Pierre de Fournay was not a lesser general--though he had a horrid reputation among the League for his losses in the War of Vlaandern, he was a superb general, skilled in the arts of defense, maneuver, and logistics. So instead of fighting the Army of True Frenchmen head on, he moved through the countryside fighting the League's smaller armies and sending his weaker armies against the walls of the Loyalist cities. Attrition did de Fournay's job for him, and the Army of True Frenchmen soon found itself lacking in food and water, with hundreds of men dying every month.

Meanwhile, Jean II's campaign was being bogged down by a surprisingly disciplined defense within the province of Limousin. Desperate for a victory, Jean II marched on the Army of Provence, which had been placed by de Fournay in a scouting role right near the Army of True Frenchmen. The Duke of Provence, overconfident and also desperate for a victory (to show the use of a strong alliance with France) engaged with the Army of True Frenchmen in the summer of 1516.

The%20Rout%20of%20San%20Romano.jpg

The Rout of Languedoc, painted by an Italian anti-Imperial in the 1540s

The battle was a disaster. League pikemen, accompanied with extensive cavalry, decimated the Provencial forces. This gave the Regency Council the news they needed. With the true Duke of Burgundy dead, the Council sent word that they had appointed Jean II as their new monarch, once he was properly positioned as the King of France.

This added newfound urgency to the anti-League campaigns. Although attrition had dealt a great blow to the Army of True Frenchmen, lowering its numbers over the year to a mere 16,000, this was still a larger army than anything that the de Fournay could bring to bear. Thus, he begged Henri to take a different tactic: negotiation. In his own words to the King, "If we do not resolve this matter quickly, the Burgundians will assuredly involve themselves and then I severely doubt our realm's ability to survive". By this point the whole Pyrennees region was under the control of the King Jean II. The Counties of Foix and Armagnac would not intervene, claiming neutrality, and the Spanish Hapsburgs were hedging their bets, supporting Henri II but marrying a minor Hapsburg to one of Jean's courtiers.

But Pierre de Fournay had found Jean II's weakness--the independent of the League itself. In 1516, the League of the Commonwealth had incorporated many of the elements of Southern French politics into itself, and by the summer its prolonged separation from the Army of True Frenchmen had created a definite split between the pseudo-reformist League (which had solid policy goals such as no entry of French soldiers into Imperial Wars, no acceptance of Breton separatists, stronger control over the Church of France, and general economic prosperity) and the revolutionary Army which wanted full control over the country.

Henri II met with the Parliament of the League, leading a 4,000 strong regiment of the Swiss Guard. Although the League's members scoffed at the use of mercenaries, they accepted that Henri did not wish to lose more French lives in this War, which had already taken the lives of 20,000. Over a week, Henri and the Parliamentarians argued over the treaty which would end the League's participation in the war, making the Army of True Frenchmen (and some scattered Breton nationalists) the last participants in the war. The elements included:

EU3_65-9.jpg

The Treaty of Toulouse said:
-Acceptance of members of the Parliament of the League into the Hapsburg court.
-Lower taxes on French noblemen
-No penalties for members of the League and members of the Army who surrender
-The princess Francine, eldest daughter of Henri II Hapsburg and Marie Valois, would be married to Remy Bourbon, the child of Jean II Bourbon and Rosette Valois


The last measure was suggested by Rosette, who had been uncomfortable to say the least in being the instrument of a civil war, and who didn't want to die for a cause which she didn't truly believe in. Jean II was absolutely incensed with this news. With his men leaving him left and right, and the Fortress of Rouerge (the provincial capital of Gascony) still under French control, Jean II had only started moving his army south to fight the traitors in Toulouse when he was told that the Armee Royale was marching on him. By the time he'd organized his pike regiments French royal cavalry was already upon him. Jean II and his personal guard attacked with pike and halberd, and through great effort were able to repulse the French cavalry from his camp. But after the defeat of the French cavalry came extensive artillery bombardments, as well as musket shots from the nearby hill. And as Jean's regiments charged up the hill, he was beset by yet another cavalry charge, this time led by Pierre de Fournay himself. Jean II was struck down by musket shot as he turned to face yet another obstacle on his path to greatness, a path cut short by the betrayal of his father, his king, and finally his wife.

EU3_70-9.jpg

The Battle of Rouerge ended the War of the Commonwealth

The War of the Commonwealth had a great many repercussions, the first of which being the death of the last heir to the Duchy of Burgundy. Though the Regency Council fought off legal claims by the Empire for 4 more years, in 1519 Emperor Mattias declared the inheritance of the Duchy of Burgundy, giving the legally French provinces to Henri II while keeping the Dutch provinces for himself. With the death of the last rival to the Hapsburgs in Christendom and the incorporation of yet another Great Power into the lands of the Hapsburg Empire, a new age was dawning--but how long would it last?

EU3_72-8.jpg

The Hapsburg inheritences--of France and of Burgundy--created a totally new international dynamic in Europe, leading to a generation of peace

The last repercussion of the war was the marriage of Remy Bourbon to Francine Hapsburg, a marriage which I will deal with in due time.
 
A Bourbon in the Hapsburg family, I can see where this is going and it isn't pretty.
 
Last edited:
Great update, especially the politics around the revolt, in the end I was feeling rather sorry for Jean II

as to:

The last repercussion of the war was the marriage of Remy Bourbon to Francine Hapsburg, a marriage which I will deal with in due time.

wasn't the last time this happened a precursor to the French Revolution?
 
Revolucion? Je ne compris!


LordsofFrance-2.png


Life in Hapsburg Europe

The generation of Hapsburg rule over Europe was both a period of unprecedented peace and a period of stark contrasts between the haves and have nots of Europe. The 'haves' (namely the Imperials) dominated every major European institution, from trade to religion to the Empire. The have-nots (the Italian city-states, the German states, England, Poland, Scandinavia, as well as those French and Portuguese nobles who were shirked by Imperial control of their countries) had to find their own ways to rebel against this increasingly powerful order. To some degree, we can say that such a rebellion against the Hapsburgs was inevitable, but the way that it occurred--leagues of alliances in some regions, the Protestant Reformation in others--was no where near as inevitable. In the meanwhile, in many cases the people of the Imperial countries weren't any better off. In this entry I will detail the politics of Hapsburg Europe using two examples--France and Italy. In the next section I will discuss the Reformation and the Reaction to it.

Haves: France

The policy of Henri II was driven by one thing and one thing only: the fear of a second general uprising. This is understandable: the War of the Commonwealth showed Henri that he wouldn't be supported by his Hapsburg brethren, who hedged their bets and retained a policy of neutrality, and ended with what could be described as a capitulation by the new dynasty. Although technically the war was won by the Imperial side with the victory at Rouergue, the Treaty of Toulouse essentially legalized the court of a pretender to the throne. The League of the Commonwealth became drastically more popular throughout Henri's reign, and most of his policies can be seen as counteracting the threat posed by a revolt caused by the League. We can see this in 3 general facts: Henri's reliance on mercenaries, the massive surplus of the French treasury, and his isolation of the French army academy. All three of these came out of a desire to incapacitate the French Army's ability to join any incipient revolt.

Henri's reliance on mercenaries can be seen quite clearly in the composition of the French diplomatic corps, which had three main departments through the early 16th century--the two usual departments (assigned to relations within and without the Commonwealth) were accompanied by a third, which dealt strictly with relations to the major mercenary companies of Europe. D'Estrees reports to Henri II show us that he was in contact with over 50 companies, all together amounting to more than 60,000 men, who would be hired in case of a revolt. Furthermore, the French army shifted in the 1520s from being comprised of mainly French soldiers to being an almost exclusively German operation. Landsknechts--elite German mercenaries--replaced the French pikeman as the core of the French army.

360px-Landsknechte.jpg

German mercenaries, who were considered by Henri to be more loyal than French pikemen

But keeping all these mercenaries in the French army (and keeping so many more on call) was an expensive proposition, which then explains Henri's massive surplus. Hardly any money was spent during the entirety of Henri II's administration. With one notable exception, most of France's public infrastructure projects (star fortresses in the county of Parma and in the newly conquered Burgundian lands, as well as the Imperial Road, a massive paved road which stretched from Antwerp through Paris and Madrid to Seville) were paid for by the more well off Austrian emperor. In fact, the treasury of France maintained a 1,000,000 livre surplus through most of the 1540s, which was caused as much by a need to keep money on hold to pay for mercenaries in case of a revolt as it was caused by the far stronger nobility's dislike for projects aimed at urban France.

The only gains made by France during Henri's reign was the incorporation of two minor countries into the French commonwealth--namely the County of Hainaut and the Duchy of Lombardia. Both of these gains would seem simple on the face of it but became highly complicated due to intra-Hapsburg rivalries. Hainaut's position between the French and Austrian Netherlands made it prime territory, because it was one of the few paths through which an army could cross the swampland of the northern Rhine. However, Henri (as the elder brother of the Count of Hainaut), was technically the legal heir to the County, and his younger brother was facing the same threat of revolt as he was. With these in place, Henri was able to pressure his younger brother into vassalage (using the threat of a challenge to his younger brother's authority and the promise of protection from a potential revolt) pretty easily.

EU3_85-5.jpg

The vassalage of Hainaut

Milan faced similar problems, as a minor holding which had just broken free of Burgundian control before the Hapsburg inheritance. With a new dynasty in control (the De Torino's, a family which hadn't even been of noble blood until given the title by the Duke of Burgundy) and little to no allies, Milan was forced into compliance by its geographical position--Northern Italy was completely dominated by the Hapsburg empire. The incorporation of Milan was given very little attention by every major corporate group in France with the exception of the League of the Commonwealth. To the League, this incorporation represented the possibility that France would finally be able to assert her dominance over the long-lost vassal of Savoy. But any attempts by Henri to incorporate Savoy was blocked by his elder cousins in Vienna--Matthias just wasn't willing to give that much Imperial land to his younger cousin--especially considering that his younger cousin was presiding over a tinderbox.

The problem of Savoy brings me to Italy, and the unique situation which developed there as a result of Hapsburg dominance. Conveniently, this also brings me to the early years of Remy Bourbon y Valois

Have Nots: Italy

EU3_1-21.jpg

Italy in 1540. Members of the Italian League are highlighted in Green (the Duchy of Modena) or light blue. With the sometime exceptions of Genoa and Venice, every other country in Italy was under Hapsburg influence for most of the 16th century. Note that Modena is fighting one of many imperial-sponsored pretenders and would-be coup members which afflicted Italy until 1550.

Italy had been a battleground for 200 years by the ascension of Henri II, with several powers (Austria and France being notable ones) playing the city-states off of each other and attempting to gain her the rich territories. This dynamic (Italy as the playground of the Great Powers) would have stayed through the 16th century (we can see shades of it in the conflict over Savoy), if it weren't for a minor coup in Tuscany in 1490.

The Medici family which had governed Tuscany had run the republic deep into the ground by that point, with wars against Sienna and loans to pay off Swiss mercenaries to fight their personal rivals. The key figure in the coup, besides Antonia de Pisa (a mercenary captain who returned to his home at the end of the coup) was a young philosopher by the name of Niccolo Machiavelli.

tumblr_m7tt7p5Kz11rt5f22o1_400.jpg

Machiavelli was known for his political acumen, his way with words, and his smug assed grin

Machiavelli came to dominate the Senate which the coup members set up as a form of government. His faction, the Italianos, had a great resemblance to the League of the Commonwealth (indeed the League of the Commonwealth based many of her institutions off of structure of the Italiano faction) and aimed towards an end to intra-Italian conflict. To Machiavelli, the choices were clear--if the New Republic of Tuscany allied herself with one of the Great Powers, she would find herself in another great power conflict and would likely last less than a decade. Instead, Machiavelli had himself appointed ambassador to the City-state of Sienna, which was isolated after her conquest of Roma. Arguing that without unity Italy would surely fall one by one, Machiavelli was soon able to create an alliance between the two pariah governments of Sienna and Tuscany. But it wasn't until 1520, with the failure of an Imperial-backed Medici countercoup, that the Tuscan-Siennese alliance was expanded into the Italian League, a multilateral alliance between all of the major city states, counties, and duchies of central Italy, including Tuscany, Sienna, Urbino and Modena. The Italian League's main goal was to protect each other's sovereignty in the face of the forces of the Empire.

But Machiavelli did more than craft a simple alliance. As one of the senior influential members of the Tuscan Senate, he made a series of moves in an attempt to 'decolonize' Italy. The most important one, which was followed up by similar legislation throughout Italy, was a pseudo-nationalization of mercenary work in Italy. The major mercenary companies were bought by their respective cities and turned into police forces, patrols, and professional militaries. With this reform, Machiavelli seriously cut down on political instability in Italy, and gave Italy one of the most elite armies in Europe.

It had another effect. Desperate for on-call mercenaries, the nationalization of the Italian soldiers-of-fortune companies forced Henri into recognition of the Italian League's sovereignty. In 1541 France became the first Hapsburg holding to send ambassadors to Florence (the seat of the Italian Parliament) in order to negotiate for mercenary contracts. Among the ambassadors was the young Remy Bourbon.

Louis%2C_Count_of_Vermandois.PNG

A later portrait of the young Remy Bourbon

Remy started his career in the French government in the Army Academy, which, though far less prestigious, was still the place to go for a martial education. He attended the cavalry school and graduated within 2 years, showing skill in horsemanship, fencing, raiding strategy, counter-partisanship, and in offensive actions. At the end of his schooling he wrote a 100 page history of the War of the League of Vendee which remains one of the chief sources on the war. After his graduation he became a member of de Maurepas' staff, participating in one of many actions against Breton revolters (Which isn't even noteworthy other than me placing Remy in it. I had a couple of revolts in Brittany over years, always less than 7,000, usually lacking cavalry. However they were 'nationalist' rather than 'peasant' revolters so they had to be chased around Brittany). Remy served with honors, leading his company in battle in more than 10 skirmishes through northern Brittany in which he lost less than ten men. However, the amount of time he had to wait for infantry support to keep up led him to suggest an all cavalry army to de Maurepas, which would be used against partisans. Such an army would be realized in 1540, known as the Gardes de la France.

However Remy would not remain in the military for long. Letters from him to Francine Hapsburg show that he had realized by the age of 20 that not only was a military career a dead end, it wasn't a dead end he wanted to remain in any longer:

I cannot deal with the pettyness peers, the pedantic attitude of my superiors, all the while knowing that the virtue of my men (what virtue there is) is going unrewarded. The army an end, not a beginning, and all of my soldiers know this. I am accompanied with itinerants, criminals, and barbarians of all types. This is supposed to be the cream of the French army? This is supposed to be the force which keeps our great Empire together?

Remy's use of 'Empire' is critical here. This letter was dated 1538, which would put him at 21. The common histiography of Remy Bourbon's life was that he was only converted to his father's cause of anti-Imperial pseudonationalism later, under the tutelage of the wizened Machiavelli. But this was 2 years before Remy transferred to the diplomatic corps and he was already using the capitalized Empire, a term far more common in the scriptures of the League of the Commonwealth than in any official documents.

Furthermore, even at an early point the letters between Machiavelli and Bourbon have a lot of discrepancies.

To the French government said:
My superior,
My first meeting with Consul Machiavelli went well. I have established without a doubt the opinion of our government, ie that the stability of all of Northern Italy--from Venice to Mantua to Savoy Genoa and our Milanese protectorate--is the prime interest of our government and our cousin governments in Italy. Furthermore, I believe that I have negotiated the end of Italian support for Neapolitan rebels in our ally Spain's holdings

His letter to Machiavelli shows a different story, however:

To Consul Machiavelli said:
Of course Imperial interference in the sovereign lands of Italy is untenable. But I cannot speak for the Empire, I speak only for France. And I know that France's only interest are in Savoy, Milan, and Genoa. I care no more about your support for Neapolitan revolters than I would care about a tax revolt in Persia. Your matters are your own

Although Bourbon seems to be playing both sides at this point, he quickly starts warming to Consul Machiavelli. And why not? Both saw themselves as marginalized by the Empire, both were highly cultured men, literate in Latin and Greek and interested in Classical works. Furthermore Remy Bourbon, always looking for a teacher, had finally seen in Machiavelli a man whom he considered his greater. His affection for Machiavelli and the Italian cause was showing by 1545--ambassadorial funds marked 'rouge cullottes', the name for one of the Neapolitan seperatist factions, shows Remy's allegiances rather comprehensively. His last letter (on the subject of Tuscan governmental reform) before the discovery that he was funneling funds from the League of the Commonwealth to Naples shows that an affectionate relationship had been developed between the Italian politician and the French prince.

My dearest Niccolo said:
I must admit my bias in favor of monarchies, after all the French monarchy has never done me wrong. But to paraphrase Aristotle a monarchy is only in its purest form when it is the rule of the Greatest (in an Aristocracy one need only the rule of many Great men rather than one genius), and related to our conversations I severely doubt that you could convert Tuscany from a Republic into a Duchy within a day or even a year. An in-between form, a noble republic, serves your purposes just as well. I have in my possession a copy of the constitution of the failed noble republic of Auvergne, when I next travel to the Universite de la Pon I will get my copy and give it to you, I feel that you can learn much from its failures. In short, I don't think that you will become Duke Nicollo I anytime soon. But, perhaps, you can aim for the title of Prince?

But Remy Bourbon never gave Machiavelli his copy. During his travel to France, Bourbon was arrested by French soldiers for treason (for his use of state moneys towards the funding of Neapolitan rivals). He managed to get by without jailing or an execution (he was, after all, the son-in law to the King), but was asked while he was in holding if he felt that it was right to commit suicide for his country. Bourbon was brought back to Paris and worked in the French treasury until 1548, when the most unexpected news came to him.
 
Last edited:
stupendous stuff, great mixing of underlying dynamics with the particular way in which they came into play. Italy sounds plausible (esp the nationalisation of the mercenaries giving it a powerful force) & really liked the letters between Machiavelli and Remy
 
stupendous stuff, great mixing of underlying dynamics with the particular way in which they came into play. Italy sounds plausible (esp the nationalisation of the mercenaries giving it a powerful force) & really liked the letters between Machiavelli and Remy

Thank you! I want to set up Remy's character as he becomes a really important character soon, and I always worry when I stray too much from the 'hard' events that happened in game (I did save a lot of money in game because Henri didn't have enough of a military stat to buy the buildings I really wanted--training grounds and reinforced walls).

OOH a cliff-hanger I love it.
very good work keep it up.:)

Thank you! This will be a JRR Martin cliff hanger sadly, I still have an entry on the Reformation before I get to the 1540s.

Is the faster pace ok with you guys? I would very much like to get to (at least) the 30 Years War events before the end of the summer.

Also, here's a 3 part beginners corner to explain some concepts that are going to come up in the next couple posts:

BEGINNER'S CORNER: The Reformation, Church Reform, and Coring

The Reformation, once you understand the variables that go into it, a lot more understandable in Magna Mundi than in EU3. In EU3 the Reformation, and who converts to the Protestant sects, seems essentially random. I've seen a Reformist Portugal, I've seen a ton of Protestant Frances, Catholic Northern Germanys/Swedens etc. This ignores that the Reformation came out of a bunch of specific factors which effected certain regions more than others (Northern Germany more than Italy, England more than Spain etc), making some countries far more likely to convert from a historical perspective.

But you do have a degree of control of how the Reformation will go. A couple of times before (and several times during) the Reformation the Curia Controller/the Pope can call a Church Council. During the Council you have a modifier which gives you significantly less diplomats/year (-1 or 2) which comes up in a second.

During the Councils the Curia controller gets a bunch of events about the status of the Catholic Church--about the use of Latin, Simony, Communion, etc. You can choose to 'reform' these things (making Catholicism more like Protestantism) at the cost of some missionaries (or if you run out of missionaries, diplomats) or you can choose to move towards the Counter-Reformation, keeping the Catholic church entrenched in its ways. When you run out of missionaries and diplomats, the council ends.

EU3_27-16.jpg

An example of a council event

A more Reformed Church will lead to a smaller, more radical Reformation (More Reformists less Protestants) while an unreformed church will lead to a far larger Reformation (possibly more moderate, but in my Lords of Prussia game there were two Reformist great powers, probably as a result of a highly conservative Papacy). Other factors which come into play are the size of the Papal State, if 1 country has been in charge of the Curia for too long a time, etc.

When the Reformation happens, you have the option of saying that it is heresy or that they have good points, and you have the choice of supporting or fighting it abroad. Saying that the Reformation has some good points and supporting it abroad will give you more conversion events, vice versa with fighting it. The conversion events will either be 'Protestantism spreads to X' or the far worse 'Religious Nationalism' which only pops up in wrong-culture provinces. Either way, you can choose to fight the reformers or to accept it, if you fight it there's a good chance of a revolt/of losing population in the province, but accepting will give you higher religious minority. Religious minorities appear as a modifier for your provinces, are effected by your tolerance, and are really hard to fully convert, although there is a religious decision to 'mass convert' your country (which usually leads to expelling the minorities, sending them to another country).

Coring is...a lot more simple than the processes I just described. Basically, instead of coring taking 100 years and that's it, coring takes a certain amount of time determined by how similar the province is to your country as a whole. A same-culture, same-religion province may only take 25-35 years to core, while a heathen religion, wrong-culture province may never core. So that's a really complicated post and if you have any questions about religion in MM feel free to ask!
 
Last edited:
Or aim for the title of "The Prince"...:laugh:
As always intriguing and interesting

Hah, I'm so happy that someone read that--that was a line I had in my head at the beginning of the writing but didn't get in until I thought "oh shoot I forgot to add that line!"
 
Awesome update!!!! Can't wait for more!!!

Will Tuscany become a Noble Republic then? Will the Italian League become a nation? And where is the pope ruling Catholic Christianity now?

Also, Who is the real man painted in the portrait of Remy Bourbon?
 
Awesome update!!!! Can't wait for more!!!

Will Tuscany become a Noble Republic then (1)? Will the Italian League become a nation (2)? And where is the pope ruling Catholic Christianity now (3)?

Also, Who is the real man painted in the portrait of Remy Bourbon (4)?

1-After 50 years of an extant Italian league, I intervened and changed Sienna, Tuscany, and Modena to Noble Republics and gave them royal marriages to each other (figured that under constant threat by Austrian/Flemish Hapsburgs from the north and Spanish Hapsburgs from the south that the Italian states would likely remain together and intermarry). A couple of years later Sienna became the vassal of Modena.

2-Italy is really hard to form in Magna Mundi, roughly as hard to form as Germany although there are 3 different ways to form Italy in MM and only 2 to form Germany (and 1 of them is nigh impossible, requiring really really intense Peasant Revolts before the Reformation. If the peasant revolters succeed they'll create a peasant's republic of germany or something similar. Never seen it happen). A successful Italian state can become Italy either by embracing Revolution, asking the Emperor for the Iron Crown, or by controlling all of northern Italy. What will likely happen is that the league will combine into 1 large state (or vassalized collection of states) in the middle of Italy (likely the Duchy/Kingdom? of Modena) which will be powerful on paper but will be hindered heavily by the 'Estates of the Realm' in a similar way that I'm hindered by the Estates (but to a stronger degree because Modena isn't significantly more powerful than the other countries) [also if I haven't said this before, when you diploannex a country you have the option of setting up an estate. This gives you cores on those provs but will significantly lower their manpower/tax base. That's likely going to be the problem for Modena, because she doesn't have cores on any of those provinces and HRE territories take forever to core].

3-I'm going to go over this in the next update, but the Pope is in Avignon. This is, narrative wise, another reason for the Reformation, because after 1495 (when Sienna took Roma) not even the Church is outside the purview of the Hapsburgs.

4-It's either the bastard child of Louis XIII, or a picture of the young Louis XIII himself. edit: The URL tells me that it's a painting of the bastard child of Louis XIV, who later became the Count of Vermandois.

I have a question for you guys. My next national idea is coming up. It would be relatively easy to 'lead up' to any of them, and I could see Louis XII especially pursuing any of these ideas. They would be either Regimental Systems, Colonial Ventures, or Patron of the Arts. All would be helpful, but I can only pick one. Help me choose!
 
2-Italy is really hard to form in Magna Mundi, roughly as hard to form as Germany although there are 3 different ways to form Italy in MM and only 2 to form Germany (and 1 of them is nigh impossible, requiring really really intense Peasant Revolts before the Reformation. If the peasant revolters succeed they'll create a peasant's republic of germany or something similar. Never seen it happen). A successful Italian state can become Italy either by embracing Revolution, asking the Emperor for the Iron Crown, or by controlling all of northern Italy. What will likely happen is that the league will combine into 1 large state (or vassalized collection of states) in the middle of Italy (likely the Duchy/Kingdom? of Modena) which will be powerful on paper but will be hindered heavily by the 'Estates of the Realm' in a similar way that I'm hindered by the Estates (but to a stronger degree because Modena isn't significantly more powerful than the other countries) [also if I haven't said this before, when you diploannex a country you have the option of setting up an estate. This gives you cores on those provs but will significantly lower their manpower/tax base. That's likely going to be the problem for Modena, because she doesn't have cores on any of those provinces and HRE territories take forever to core]

It would be awesome if you could mod it and make a Noble Italian Republic.

I have a question for you guys. My next national idea is coming up. It would be relatively easy to 'lead up' to any of them, and I could see Louis XII especially pursuing any of these ideas. They would be either Regimental Systems, Colonial Ventures, or Patron of the Arts. All would be helpful, but I can only pick one. Help me choose!

I would say either Regimental Systems because Remy was in the army or Patron of The Arts because Remy was connected with Italy politically and perhaps maybe even artistically (he was an ambassador in Florence, he could easily be influenced there)
 
2-Italy is really hard to form in Magna Mundi, roughly as hard to form as Germany

How Clausewitzian! I thought everything in Magna Mundi was hard.:D
I have a question for you guys. My next national idea is coming up. It would be relatively easy to 'lead up' to any of them, and I could see Louis XII especially pursuing any of these ideas. They would be either Regimental Systems, Colonial Ventures, or Patron of the Arts. All would be helpful, but I can only pick one. Help me choose!
As I am unaware of the depth of MM's National Ideas so I say...spins top... Regimental Systems
 
Hah, right you are! But both Northern Italy and (1 province from each German culture) are incredibly hard to get cores on, because even in the case of Vlaandern, where the Emperor liked me the whole time, it took 70 years to core a same-religion, close-culture province. Taking a non-core German province (which is likely to be different-religion), and having an emperor who's pissed at you can mean that it'll take 150+ years to core. It's why the only time I've ever successfully become Germany was in 1789.

And at the national idea thing:

Patron of the Arts:
-1 revolt risk
+2.5 yearly prestige

note: This still increases my chance of getting a good councilor. 'Hiring fairs', which give you a chance of getting a great person of a specific type (army, naval, governmental, trade, etc), give you better councilors if you have better prestige.

Colonial Ventures:
+5% tariffs
+.50 colonists/year
-15% colonist cost

note: Colonist costs are, right now, my biggest expense. 'Colonial Plans', the modifier that gives me my colonists, goes up every couple of decades but right now it's only +.35 a year and it stops whenever you're at war. The Also Colonial Ventures lets you set up a 'center for settlement', which really increases the population, tax base, and manpower of one of your colonial provinces.

Regimental systems:
-.01 Monthly War Exhaustion
-1 Maximum War Exhaustion
+25% land force limit
-25% recruitment speed
+20% reinforce rate

note: reinforcement and recruitment speeds are a lot slower in MM.
 
Last edited: