Were the holy cities fortified during those ages or later on?
Crush all the infidels, massacre them!
Crush all the infidels, massacre them!
Rome AARisen - a Byzantine AAR
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Were the holy cities fortified during those ages or later on?
Crush all the infidels, massacre them!
I wouldn't do that. Might be they have an uprising of all muslims in the Roman Empire on their hands then.
Starve them out, but don't attack and don't destroy, then place some loyal muslim spiritual leader there.
If it were Gabriel alone leading the Romans, I might hold out hope that he would not sack Islam's Holy Cities...but Thomas II is in command, and I very much doubt that he will be merciful in the slightest. And, if Mecca and Medina are sacked, then that would provide yet another catalyst for those who are going to reshape Islam into something new entirely in the coming generations.
I wonder where Islam will hold out in this world. I don't think that the old heartlands in Arabia will convert, and the flight of the Moroccans into Sub-Saharan Africa will probably firmly establish it there. I'm not sure about what will happen in India and Indonesia (had Islam even established a foothold there in the 13th century?). Egypt, Mesopotamia, Persia and North Africa would seem to be perfect areas for conversion to the new religion, though I'm willing to bet that some of them will remain Muslim, in spite of everything. The religious map that this turmoil will leave should be fascinating.
I wonder where Islam will hold out in this world. I don't think that the old heartlands in Arabia will convert, and the flight of the Moroccans into Sub-Saharan Africa will probably firmly establish it there. I'm not sure about what will happen in India and Indonesia (had Islam even established a foothold there in the 13th century?). Egypt, Mesopotamia, Persia and North Africa would seem to be perfect areas for conversion to the new religion, though I'm willing to bet that some of them will remain Muslim, in spite of everything. The religious map that this turmoil will leave should be fascinating.
Agreed, Thomas is not one to show mercy if any resistance is given, possibly even if there is none. The destruction of Mecca and Medina would obviously cause revolts across Romanion in the short term. The long term however, I think most muslims would see that even though the Byzantines had defiled Mecca, no great balls of holy fire have descended upon them, pushing them to either convert to orthodoxy or to the new offshoot religion.
And now, just a small quote from the past.....
And now, just a small quote from the past.....
its been a while but I have finally got to read the AAR again and it is as great as ever!
The Muslim thing is very epic and the scence with Thomas and Frederica was great...
Thomas embodies "ignorance is bliss"
Keep it up!
The Muslim thing is very epic and the scence with Thomas and Frederica was great...
Thomas embodies "ignorance is bliss"
Keep it up!
Abu Bakr this Sharif certainly ain't, and his son ain't Khalid.
History doesn't repeat, baby, it rhymes, and sometimes the rhymer is sloppy.
History doesn't repeat, baby, it rhymes, and sometimes the rhymer is sloppy.
It seems the roman juggernaut can't be stopped exept maybe by another Roman juggernaut?
I wonder how Thomas II is doing.
I wonder how Thomas II is doing.
Well, hi. I've finnaly found the courage to start reading today, and right now I'm at page 11. So let's see how long it takes me to go through 140 pages of a really good AAR. I'll post again after I've read through the whole thing.
It goes much faster after the first 20 pages or so, the speed at which BT posted back then is amazing.
von Sachsen - Looking back, I'm wondering if I was indeed a robot back then--nowadays once a week is the norm, not four! On a side note, I wonder what Manuel would have to say about all of this mess his descendants are causing?
Vesimir - Hey, welcome to the thread! It's not as bad as they make it sound... really! Hope to hear your impressions soon!
Deamon - Next update will probably be the first since Neapolis where we get inside his head, and how much it's changed...
RGB - I'm stealing that quote! The Sharif tried, and failed...
armoristan - Ignorance is bliss, and a nice cold bed...
Fulcrumvale - The upcoming campaign into the Hejaz is going to be as much a test of wills between an insane father and his gifted son as it will be a battle between the Romans and their Hejazi opponents. As for Islam, India still has the Delhi Sultanate, unless the Mongols lumber that way. The Arabian heartland is fairly safe, as is the East Africa coast and Mali. IIRC Islam didn't really become a dominant faith in Indonesia until around this time period too... we might see by EU3 a more even split between Muslim and Hindu states on the islands.
Incidentally returning to the Mongol question, that's a subject I've been debating in my mind--with a strong empire to its west (and temporarily at least stymied by the HRE), would Mongol "energies" be more focused in the richer east... more focused campaigns over the Hindu Kush into India, and an earlier invasion attempt of Japan, as well as earlier pushes into south China? I'm interested to see people's opinions on this.
Kirsch27 - That quote isn't from me, it's from an actual hadith. They're meant to be metaphorical, even cryptic...
4th Dimension - Your guess is as good as mine. I'm no Islamic scholar, so I can't give any indepth or accurate interpretations of what the hadith means... it just fit, for lack of a better explanation.
asd21593 - For Islam as we know it in our world, yes. For Islam in the alternate history, there is no end, only new beginnings...
Qorten - That sounds like the battleplan Gabriel is likely going to propose. What remains to be seen is whether Thomas goes along with such moderation, or if he decides its time for fire and lemon juice...
Enewald - AFAIK not with massive defenses... Mecca and Medina incidentally weren't all that large even during this time period. Somewhere on my computer I have a photo of Mecca from the late Ottoman early, early 20th century, and it's surprisingly tiny.
English Patriot - Beating up small powers that stupidly declare war in game? Yup, it's how the Megas got his empire in the first place! Incidentally, I have an idea for how to introduce "you know who." I think you'll like it!
The_Archduke - I think we could file burning Mecca under the category of "VERY BAD THINGS TO DO."
Irsh Faq - Not really the desert warfare part, they moreso just marched faster than the Sharif and his subordinates expected. It's more a failure on the Hejazis part to anticipate the Romans might be able to cover a good 15 to 20 miles a day, than the Romans moving extraordinarily fast (Basil's 30 miles a day, for example). It also didn't help that the Hejazi army was more a confederation than a unified command...
On a side note, I wonder what Manuel would have to say about all of this mess his descendants are causing?Vesimir - Hey, welcome to the thread! It's not as bad as they make it sound... really!
Hope to hear your impressions soon!Deamon - Next update will probably be the first since Neapolis where we get inside his head, and how much it's changed...
RGB - I'm stealing that quote!
The Sharif tried, and failed...armoristan - Ignorance is bliss, and a nice cold bed...
Fulcrumvale - The upcoming campaign into the Hejaz is going to be as much a test of wills between an insane father and his gifted son as it will be a battle between the Romans and their Hejazi opponents. As for Islam, India still has the Delhi Sultanate, unless the Mongols lumber that way. The Arabian heartland is fairly safe, as is the East Africa coast and Mali. IIRC Islam didn't really become a dominant faith in Indonesia until around this time period too... we might see by EU3 a more even split between Muslim and Hindu states on the islands.
Incidentally returning to the Mongol question, that's a subject I've been debating in my mind--with a strong empire to its west (and temporarily at least stymied by the HRE), would Mongol "energies" be more focused in the richer east... more focused campaigns over the Hindu Kush into India, and an earlier invasion attempt of Japan, as well as earlier pushes into south China? I'm interested to see people's opinions on this.
Kirsch27 - That quote isn't from me, it's from an actual hadith. They're meant to be metaphorical, even cryptic...
4th Dimension - Your guess is as good as mine. I'm no Islamic scholar, so I can't give any indepth or accurate interpretations of what the hadith means... it just fit, for lack of a better explanation.
asd21593 - For Islam as we know it in our world, yes. For Islam in the alternate history, there is no end, only new beginnings...
Qorten - That sounds like the battleplan Gabriel is likely going to propose. What remains to be seen is whether Thomas goes along with such moderation, or if he decides its time for fire and lemon juice...
Enewald - AFAIK not with massive defenses... Mecca and Medina incidentally weren't all that large even during this time period. Somewhere on my computer I have a photo of Mecca from the late Ottoman early, early 20th century, and it's surprisingly tiny.
English Patriot - Beating up small powers that stupidly declare war in game? Yup, it's how the Megas got his empire in the first place! Incidentally, I have an idea for how to introduce "you know who."
I think you'll like it!The_Archduke - I think we could file burning Mecca under the category of "VERY BAD THINGS TO DO."
Irsh Faq - Not really the desert warfare part, they moreso just marched faster than the Sharif and his subordinates expected. It's more a failure on the Hejazis part to anticipate the Romans might be able to cover a good 15 to 20 miles a day, than the Romans moving extraordinarily fast (Basil's 30 miles a day, for example). It also didn't help that the Hejazi army was more a confederation than a unified command...
Worse than chucking the Pope off a balcony?
Meh. East Africa may be safe from Rome, but that wouldn't make it safe for Islam. Ethiopia proved unconquerable, and eventually stronger than the Adal Sultanate even in our timeline, where the Adal had Muslim allies across the Red Sea and the Ethiopians were almost totally cut off from the world due to being surrounded by religious enemies. I think in this timeline, where they can access the immense wealth of the Indian-Roman trade routes and where the Adal would be the ones looking lonely and surrounded (whilst lacking the unparalleled defensive terrain of the Ethiopians), they might well unite an ahistorically wealthy and powerful Orthodox East Africa.
Either way though East Africa will not be an impoverished backwater as in our timeline.
Christian recapture of Egypt and re-opening of the Indian trade routes has so many delicious alternate-historical implications...
Servius Magnus - Thank you for all the kind praise! I actually didn't start playing CK myself until I read some of the AARs in this forum - the Byzantine Letters and the Paleologi specifically, so I understand where you're coming from.
Update is about 60-70% done. Right now I've got a little writing and a lot of graphics to make. So, to hold everyone over, I have a little graphic of what I've been doing in In Nomine while I was procrastinating...
At this point in game its 1580... my Byzantine Empire Westernized in 1562, and has been decisively beating Muslim countries since. I hold Funj, Adal and a small African country in present day Nigeria (forget its name) as vassals from conquest, and have Moldavia, Montenegro and Armenia as diplomatic vassals for future diploannex. Byzantium fields the largest standing army in the world, 120,000 strong, though we're a little technololgically behind (thanks to Westernization, not by far though). Byzantium also has the largest navy - 18 heavy warships, 15 light warships, 50 galleys and 20 transports. My current mission is to take southern Italy, but the alliance climate isn't in favor of such a move, so I think instead I might take on Fez, who owns almost all of north Africa outside of me - they look large and menacing, but in fact, they muster far too few troops.
Of very interesting note is the fate of Poland, who had a royal marriage union with Lithuania and instantly became the most powerful country in the world for some 80 years, before exploding into civil war (which has last twenty years... Poland's monarchy holds no territory of its own, its all occupied). Silesia, Polotsk, Ukraine, and Lithuania all declared independence and are still squabbling over the spoils.
Question: Is this post a refence to the future EU game, or just a In game that you posted to fill the time?
I believe it was just an In game he posted when he was bored and preoccupied with other things.
I've got some work done on the next update, an outline and some of the text. Look for it to be posted sometime this weekend, sooner if I get some time!
As another infamous teaser, I've got a few future characters' pictures picked out. You all haven't been introduced to this fellow yet (he's a little down the line), but you're more than welcome to guess what role and/or position he has in the story... (other than he's in some position of authority, that's apparent):
And here's the second:
Like I said, there's not enough info on what their names are, but there have been some hints dropped as to what position they hold... Sometime down the line (maybe when we reach some milestone), I'll be really evil and post the current version of the prospective EU3 map I have made.:wacko:
Enewald, von Sachsen & Hawkeye1489 - Yeah, that was a random EU3 In Nomine game I was playing as the Byzantines a long time before. Seeing that again makes me want to pop up EU3 again, but no, I'll be good and get an update done first!
Irsh Faq - Normally I'd say your point about Ethiopia would be sound, but I've got an unfair prescience about some things that will happen that could confound those expectations.
As another infamous teaser, I've got a few future characters' pictures picked out. You all haven't been introduced to this fellow yet (he's a little down the line), but you're more than welcome to guess what role and/or position he has in the story... (other than he's in some position of authority, that's apparent):
And here's the second:
Like I said, there's not enough info on what their names are, but there have been some hints dropped as to what position they hold... Sometime down the line (maybe when we reach some milestone), I'll be really evil and post the current version of the prospective EU3 map I have made.
:wacko:Enewald, von Sachsen & Hawkeye1489 - Yeah, that was a random EU3 In Nomine game I was playing as the Byzantines a long time before. Seeing that again makes me want to pop up EU3 again, but no, I'll be good and get an update done first!
Irsh Faq - Normally I'd say your point about Ethiopia would be sound, but I've got an unfair prescience about some things that will happen that could confound those expectations.
Like I said, there's not enough info on what their names are, but there have been some hints dropped as to what position they hold... Sometime down the line (maybe when we reach some milestone), I'll be really evil and post the current version of the prospective EU3 map I have made.
How is the conquest of Persia not a milestone? You already have Italy, Egypt and the Empire Proper, what more do you need?