Tribal to Feudalism

Spikee78 · Mar 5, 2015

Hi,

I just started playing as Yngling (Norse), in the Old Gods period, so that's tribal. It's fun, but I don't know if I like Elective Gavelkind, maybe I like it even less than just Gavelkind ...
I would like to move away from it, and I think I need to be a feudal system for that. Correct?

Considering these requirements:

[video]http://oi61.tinypic.com/2w2jtwh.jpg[/video]

What is the best way to go about moving to Feudalism?

Specifically I also have a few points I just don't understand:

* Have a Stone Hillfort in Akershus

What do you need to be able to build this? I've build Earthen, Wooden and so on, never got the option of Stone Hillfort.

* Absolute Tribal Organization law

The laws mention that unreformed pagans don't like this sort of laws, ultimately reaching a -30 dislike penalty. Can you avoid this by converting to another religion early on?

* Converting to another religion

I've read elsewhere that the easiest way is to imprison a Catholic woman and make her your Concubine. Then you will have an option to convert in Intrigue. Is that correct?

* Noble Customs

This one is easy, that's putting a single research into it, do I need any other researching? Maybe for the Stone Hillfort?

Zsrai · Mar 5, 2015

Spikee78 said:
Hi,

I just started playing as Yngling (Norse), in the Old Gods period, so that's tribal. It's fun, but I don't know if I like Elective Gavelkind, maybe I like it even less than just Gavelkind ...
I would like to move away from it, and I think I need to be a feudal system for that. Correct?

Considering these requirements:

[video]http://oi61.tinypic.com/2w2jtwh.jpg[/video]

What is the best way to go about moving to Feudalism?

Specifically I also have a few points I just don't understand:

* Have a Stone Hillfort in Akershus

What do you need to be able to build this? I've build Earthen, Wooden and so on, never got the option of Stone Hillfort.

* Absolute Tribal Organization law

The laws mention that unreformed pagans don't like this sort of laws, ultimately reaching a -30 dislike penalty. Can you avoid this by converting to another religion early on?

* Converting to another religion

I've read elsewhere that the easiest way is to imprison a Catholic woman and make her your Concubine. Then you will have an option to convert in Intrigue. Is that correct?

* Noble Customs

This one is easy, that's putting a single research into it, do I need any other researching? Maybe for the Stone Hillfort?

- Stone Hillfort is Hillfort IV (the max... and it does say Stone Hillfort IV IIRC)
- It only effects unreformed pagans like you said, so if you are, f. ex., a Catholic Tribe it doesn't matter.
- Yes, this is most likely the easiest option. Just raid a bunch of Christian, Muslim, Zoroastrian, or Indian (all 4 are 'reformed') lands until you capture a female courtier.
- Hillfort III (and therefor IV) needs Castle Infrastructure I, so you basically need 2 Techs to feudalize.

EDIT: Check out the wiki, especially the building section so you know what Tribal buildings transfer to Feudal. http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Tribes

Steel_atlas · Mar 5, 2015

Spikee78 said:
Hi,

I just started playing as Yngling (Norse), in the Old Gods period, so that's tribal. It's fun, but I don't know if I like Elective Gavelkind, maybe I like it even less than just Gavelkind ...
I would like to move away from it, and I think I need to be a feudal system for that. Correct?

Considering these requirements:

[video]http://oi61.tinypic.com/2w2jtwh.jpg[/video]

What is the best way to go about moving to Feudalism?

Specifically I also have a few points I just don't understand:

* Have a Stone Hillfort in Akershus

What do you need to be able to build this? I've build Earthen, Wooden and so on, never got the option of Stone Hillfort.

* Absolute Tribal Organization law

The laws mention that unreformed pagans don't like this sort of laws, ultimately reaching a -30 dislike penalty. Can you avoid this by converting to another religion early on?

* Converting to another religion

I've read elsewhere that the easiest way is to imprison a Catholic woman and make her your Concubine. Then you will have an option to convert in Intrigue. Is that correct?

* Noble Customs

This one is easy, that's putting a single research into it, do I need any other researching? Maybe for the Stone Hillfort?

Your going to need a huge amount of gold before you can transition, enough to build at least a town and church in each of your counties and your vassals are going to need to have a level 4 hill fort to move into feudalism or else they will remain tribal and be much more powerful since your new feudal lands will have a much smaller army size even fully upgraded.

My recommendation is to switch to Catholicism once you have conquered the pagan lands you want in Scandinavia, then remain tribal appointing your excess sons to bishop positions so they don't fracture your kingdom until you have built up a huge hoard of gold and let your vassals progress.

Matthias_Wlkp · Mar 5, 2015

I'm having a lot of fun lately playing Curonians from CM start. I reformed Romuva faith and I think that way, even though is harder, it certainly has some major benefits, most notably:

- you will be able to raid after going Feudal
- you get your "personal" Holy Order - if you don't spread your religion, no one will take them - in my case it's 7K of troops to protect me from heathens (in fact everyone else around me)

Elective Gavelkind is bad, but I come to think that it's better than regular gavelkind - If you fill the realm with your family, you can try to push your biggest vassal as succesor = moving his lands to the royal demense on succession.

EDIT:

Forgot the downsides:
- as soon as you establish a kingdom and reform the faith, your expansion will have to stop until researching Military org. lvl 4. If you stay in your de jure, pagans around you should be less keen to hassle with you.
- getting all holy sites means a big kingdom - that is A LOT of raiding to get to feudalism...

Empress Matilda · Mar 5, 2015

Matthias_Wlkp said:
I'm having a lot of fun lately playing Curonians from CM start. I reformed Romuva faith and I think that way, even though is harder, it certainly has some major benefits, most notably:

- you will be able to raid after going Feudal
- you get your "personal" Holy Order - if you don't spread your religion, no one will take them - in my case it's 7K of troops to protect me from heathens (in fact everyone else around me)

Elective Gavelkind is bad, but I come to think that it's better than regular gavelkind - If you fill the realm with your family, you can try to push your biggest vassal as succesor = moving his lands to the royal demense on succession.

EDIT:

Forgot the downsides:
- as soon as you establish a kingdom and reform the faith, your expansion will have to stop until researching Military org. lvl 4. If you stay in your de jure, pagans around you should be less keen to hassle with you.
- getting all holy sites means a big kingdom - that is A LOT of raiding to get to feudalism...

Then again 3 of your holy sites are in Lithuania itself which you will want and a 4th is in Pomerania which is already feudal. Once I had Rugen and the 4th holy site I just raided until MA reached 50. Wasn't too hard. I'd say that Romuva is the easiest religion to reform without having to worry about losing kingdoms on rulers death.

Matthias_Wlkp · Mar 5, 2015

I had only 3 sites, and steadily raiding temples... The issue was, that my looters managed to destroy most of the temples around me after raiding them 4-5 times and I had to plunder Bohemia, Avars and ultimately Bavaria...

Pomerania is my next target, as I need an easy 3rd Kingdom to form an Empire, but that will be after I go feudal.

Now with ships (45 at the moment, which seems strange to have that many with Shipyard 1 in my capital...) I'm plundering Brittany and Wales most of the time, while I wait for the provinces to reach required castle infrastructure.

Empress Matilda · Mar 5, 2015

Matthias_Wlkp said:
I had only 3 sites, and steadily raiding temples... The issue was, that my looters managed to destroy most of the temples around me after raiding them 4-5 times and I had to plunder Bohemia, Avars and ultimately Bavaria...

Pomerania is my next target, as I need an easy 3rd Kingdom to form an Empire, but that will be after I go feudal.

Now with ships (45 at the moment, which seems strange to have that many with Shipyard 1 in my capital...) I'm plundering Brittany and Wales most of the time, while I wait for the provinces to reach required castle infrastructure.

I think the number of ships you get from a tribal holding is affected by the number of empty holdings in the province like with troops. I plundered Rome a lot since it has so many churches.

PG908 · Mar 5, 2015

Empress Matilda said:
I think the number of ships you get from a tribal holding is affected by the number of empty holdings in the province like with troops. I plundered Rome a lot since it has so many churches.

Empty slots do modify the galley count like they do for regular troops. Irritatingly it takes forever to reinforce.

Ilion · Mar 5, 2015

Matthias_Wlkp said:
The issue was, that my looters managed to destroy most of the temples around me after raiding them 4-5 times and I had to plunder Bohemia, Avars and ultimately Bavaria...

Pomerania is my next target, as I need an easy 3rd Kingdom to form an Empire, but that will be after I go feudal..

Playing as the (Jewism) Khazars, I finally gave in (*) and started raiding. In my, um, "harvesting" operations, the province has to either border my terrirory or be a coastal province (and I must have ships in the coastal waters).

Is it different for pagan raiders?

(*) I say "gave in" because I hate raiders -- how shameful to have become one!

Zsrai · Mar 6, 2015

Ilion said:
Playing as the (Jewism) Khazars, I finally gave in (*) and started raiding. In my, um, "harvesting" operations, the province has to either border my terrirory or be a coastal province (and I must have ships in the coastal waters).

Is it different for pagan raiders?

(*) I say "gave in" because I hate raiders -- how shameful to have become one!

You can raid anywhere, but you won't get money/prestige unless you border the county and/or it is coastal and you have boats off shore. It's a good way to grab am Indian concubine if you want to go Hindu or something as a Norseman though.

Reguire · Mar 6, 2015

If you adopt feudalism your vassals will create factions to use Elective Monarchy. It can be a pain.

heliostellar · Mar 6, 2015

Matthias_Wlkp said:
Elective Gavelkind is bad, but I come to think that it's better than regular gavelkind - If you fill the realm with your family, you can try to push your biggest vassal as succesor = moving his lands to the royal demense on succession.

Completely disagree. Elective gavelkind is terrible. It's all of the drawbacks of Gavelkind and Elective/Tanistry with none of the benefits. The drawbacks of Gavelkind include division of your holdings among not only your children, but also of your heir who is not required to be one of your children. This is in addition to realm shattering that is unique to this train wreck of a law.

As far as the elective disadvantages, you almost never control who will be elected. In fact, the AI seems to go to pains to select your worse relative.

To OP, in terms of religion, you could easily reform Germanic unless you really want to go Catholic. In the current iteration of the patch, Catholic is not desirable unless you have plans to conquer all of the Catholic world because of the antipope/depose bugs that ruin Catholic MA.

Pannonius · Mar 6, 2015

I really hate that after going feudal, holdings change their name to "Tribe of X", while they were known as just X when they really were a tribe.

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Tribal to Feudalism

Spikee78

First Lieutenant

Zsrai

Field Marshal

Steel_atlas

Lt. General

Matthias_Wlkp

Major

Empress Matilda

Colonel

Matthias_Wlkp

Major

Empress Matilda

Colonel

PG908

A New Soviet Man

Ilion

Major

Zsrai

Field Marshal

Reguire

Second Lieutenant

heliostellar

Field Marshal

Pannonius

First Lieutenant