Ultimogeniture

i use it, its great for realms with only medium crown authority... If you can control your characters libido, there's really no problem. Have kids until you get an heir with the traits you want.

The main downside is that your older siblings will usually get claims on your titles when you inherit, but crushing pretenders shouldn't be too big of a deal for anyone that's played this game for 30 or more hours. Another downside is that ultimogeniture heirs often inherit while underage, meaning regency, which we all know is ridiculously boring. BUT on the plus side of that coin, by the time you come of age you will more than likely have a long reign bonus with your vassals.

I used to use it, like many pointed out, when you can't have primogeniture due to low crown authority, but lately I've just been keeping my ruler unmarried and popping out bastards until I get a good one, which I legitimize. Maybe two if I feel vulnerable. The only penalty for a legitimized bastard is -1 diplomacy, and who cares about that really.

Early game I've found it kind of pointless to get married, since that seems to be the time when your wife is most likely going to cheat on you. Late game it doesn't seem to be that much of an issue, so I feel safe getting married. In that case, I also run with the console command that shows me who the real parents are, just to be sure, and I've found that is usually the case (that late game they don't cheat nearly as often). I think this may have something to do with coding and how when you first start a game, everyone is kind of scrambling to make sure they have heirs, so seduction is all over the place.

Not sure if any of you have noticed this either, but early game your court fills up to 100-200 people easily due to all the seduction going on, but that normalizes and settles down late game, and your court ends up being a normal 20-30, depending on the situation.

Talq said:

This. And the mongolians are inflicted with ultimogeniture even though that isn't really what they used for actual rulership (and ultimogenature in game hardly reflects how they divided their lands).

But undoubtedly it seemed a good idea at the time.

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They should get tribal elective instead, imo. (Khuruldai)
Not sure if it should have the gavelkind mechanism, though.
Pretty sure there's arguements for and opposed.

But back to the main point; ultimogeniture can ensure fairly stable realms, especially under buddhism/jainism.
For one; they don't get a short reign penalty, which means that vassals will like your (child) successor more.
Since they'll likely be alive for a long time they'll get large long reign bonuses.
Jaining then gets the further advantage of the extra vassal opinion.
And both allow you to designate your heir, meaning that you'll usually have the most suitable heir that you've conceived, as well as the chance to avoid regencies.

heliostellar said:

You can't marry a woman older than 40 as a ruler.

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You could in earlier versions, afaik.

Having shorter reigns can be a bonus for you early on if you are a ruler. That is if you have few vassals and a smaller kingdom. The short reign penalty is a pain but if you can manage to leave enough descendants, it will result in your getting prestige bonus for your family. If you have one ruler rule for 50 years as a king you get just 40 prestige for your family when he dies but if you have 5 rulers each ruling for 10 years, at the end of 50 years you get 200 prestige with 5 kings. Thus every marriage you get extra prestige, more powerful families would be willing to have an alliance with you. Personally, without cheat, elective monarchy would be my choice if the kingdom is small and I have more elector titles than others. In a kingdom say with only 4 duchies or less, your choice of heir will almost certainly be chosen. A bigger demesne will then be a problem. But if you want the best heir, elective is the only way to go unless you are lucky enough to get your best possible heir as your first born or last born.

In my Empire of Finlandia game, I used Ultimo for generations, well, it is good, once you get pass regency, it will be good! Long reign bonus ftw!

LemonMonk said:

I think Ultimo is a nice mix. You keep all of your lands (big advantage of the succession law), but with a far higher chance of regencies your CA can be lowered at will, faction are more likely as a young ruler has lower diplomacy. If you know how to play the game successfully though, it doesn't really matter which succession law you use, you will succeed.

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Added benefit of longer reigns, generally, with the youngest inheriting. Particularly in the current game where the family cup can runneth over.

Olav III said:

In my Empire of Finlandia game, I used Ultimo for generations, well, it is good, once you get pass regency, it will be good! Long reign bonus ftw!

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Exactly.

Olav III said:

In my Empire of Finlandia game, I used Ultimo for generations, well, it is good, once you get pass regency, it will be good! Long reign bonus ftw!

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Yeah I like ultimogeniture too.

It gives you more control over your heir, because you can just divorce or kill your wife after you've got the genetic trait you want.

A good genetic trait with ultimogeniture is strong, because you will get insanely long reigns. In return, these long reigns let you more time to get the heir you want, and more time to avoid regencies.

With WoL, you can also take Hunting and Family focuses to extend even further you reign.

Topkekk said:

I actually wonder if there was a tribe/kingdom in the game's timeframe that used Ultimogeniture.

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i believe the logic behind ultimo was actually for farmers, rather than feudal landholders - older children would have longer to get out and make something for themselves, whereas the younger children would be stuck at home looking after their old and infirm parents (keeping the hearth as someone said) and so wouldn't be as able to establish themselves if they had to spend their time looking after mum and dad. but ye, no rulers (except mongolians - and that's fairly thin, as genghis' lands were divided, just the youngest son (and genghis' favourite) got the "primary" title)

it is entirely used as an exploit, as we move to primo, the preferred inheritance. personally, inheritance, like so much of the game, needed some serious depth, and that includes a general move from divisible inheritance towards primogeniture as the ages pass, something with ought to exist as part of a larger transition from the early to the late game.

Lord_P said:

Why are we even allowed to get Ultimogeniture? Where is the basis? Why does Primo require High CA but Ultimo requires only Low CA? This boggles my mind...

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The ridiculous part is that leaving everything to the eldest son would be a far more palatable concept to the rest of the realm than the youngest, so I don't see why you would need higher crown authority to get them to agree to a concept that is pretty familiar to them all anyway.

If you know how to handle succession and adapt your game play to whichever succession law you chose, there isn't that big of a difference between primogeniture and ultimogeniture. The only difference is shorter reigns vs longer reigns, which translates to more dynasty prestige vs more stable realm(thanks to long realm bonus). The frequency of regencies is 1 of those things that you can handle pretty easily with the right mind set. As far as choosing your preferred heir out of X sons, say if 1 of them is Genius/Quick/Strong(in that order) and the others aren't, if you're in Primogeniture just keep giving the eldest son to the church until you get the heir you want. With Ultimogeniture you do the same but from the opposite direction, keep giving the youngest son to the church rather than the oldest. That's also the way to deal with regencies in Ultimogeniture, if you're old and your youngest son is very young, just give him to the church so the heir will be older. Obviously mistakes can happen, as can untimely deaths, but those will hurt regardless of your succession law.