Remember getting into some sort of dicussion about this long ago on an HOI3 thread I can no longer find.
Basically, it involved AI Czechoslovakia sometimes refusing to concede its territory and going to war against Germany after a certain update to the game. The argument was between some players, who enjoyed the surprise and uncertainty factor and ahistorical possibilities, and others, whose main concern was that this would break the whole subsequent event chain (and the diplomacy system, since the Allies would be considered the aggressor, and the war goals, since Germany, now the one 'attacked,' would not set The Fall of France goal, etc.)
I brought up a proposal in that thread for an alternative chain of events that would serve as a contingency plan in that scenario. If I recall, it went something like this:
- Czechoslovakia under AI management will occasionally (5-10% of the time) refuse to give up the Sudetenland
- Germany will DOW Czechoslovakia. Czechoslovakia will NOT immediately join Allies, nor will Allies immediately join the war.
- Short phase (two weeks, three weeks, a month?) of Germany v. Czechoslovakia one-on-one war will ensue.
- If Germany defeats Czechoslovakia in that time, it will force the terms of the concessions onto Czechoslovakia: Germany gets Sudetenland and Bohemia-Moravia (cores on both), Hungary gets its cores, puppet Slovakia released. The Allies will guarantee Poland and events will proceed as usual.
- If Czechoslovakia manages to hold out until the end of that first period, the UK and France will get a decision (Stand By Czechoslovakia) that allows them to enter the war and Czechoslovakia to become a member of the Allies. Germany, as a penalty for its failure to blitzkrieg-conquer Czechoslovakia, will get cores on Sudetenland only and not on Bohemia-Moravia as a whole.
.
- If this second line of events follows, and then Czechoslovakia does fall, Poland will get a decision (We're Next?)
- Option one: Poland will join the Allies and the war against Germany. Things will proceed fairly normally from here.
- Option two: Poland concedes the Danzig Corridor to Germany and stays out of the Allies as an appeasement in exchange for a non-aggression pact with Germany
- If Poland takes the second option, the Soviet Union gets its own seperate war option which it will use to declare war on Poland while the Allies and Germany are tied up with each other, in which case it will conquer Eastern Poland and puppet the remainder.
- When the USSR attacks Poland if the Poles took the second option, the Allies will get a decision (which the AI will refuse but a player can take) to declare war on the Soviet Union in defense of Poland.
- Germany will also get a decision if the USSR takes Poland: declare a two-front war against the Soviets or bide their time.
- The German AI will only rarely take the two front war option. If it does, Poland will become an Axis member. Germany and Poland will fight a limited war with the Soviet Union: the Soviets will get something like a three month window to force a surrender on Poland
- If the Soviets force a Polish surrender, Germany gets an option of fighting on alone, or conceding Poland to the Soviets in a peace (the German AI would take the peace option).
- If Poland has still held out after those three months with German help, the Soviets will instead sue for peace, giving up all claims on Poland and signing a non-aggression pact with Poland and Germany (a Soviet player will get an event informing them that they face a coup from the demoralized army and will take massive penalties if they choose not to offer this peace). If the Soviet player chooses to fight on instead of offering terms, Finland and Romania will also get events that let them join the Axis and the war against the USSR immediately.
- Germany will then get the option to demand a territorial concession (of western Polish territories like Poznan and Silesia) from Poland after the Soviet ceasefire, to boot them from the Axis and betray them with a DOW and total conquest (German AI liable to do either of these options), or to leave the Poles at peace as a German ally (option for the player). Polish AI will concede the territories, Polish player could refuse, in which case Germany proceeds to option two, boots them from Axis, and declares war. Poland if booted from Axis and DOW'd becomes an Allied member.
- If, on the other hand, the Germans chose the bide their time option, the Poles will fight the Soviets alone and most likely get conquered. Germany will get a CB later after France falls to go war with the Soviets later.
- Final possibility: if both the Allies and Germany were to DOW the Soviet Union in defense of Poland, Soviet Union gets a special option to back down immediately and peace out with all, which the AI will take in lieu of fighting the Allies and Germany (comes with a big dissent penalty though). Poland then gets a decision (Whose Side Are We On?) - they can choose to join the Allies (thrusting them into war with Germany) or the Axis (at the cost of conceding those western territories like Poznan and Silesia). German AI will accept Poland's offer of submission; German player can refuse it and DOW them, forcing Poland into the Allies.
While there may be some kinks to work out in the chain of events I've proposed above, I believe in general it's a good outline to follow. Czechoslovakia and Poland are given options to seriously influence the outcome of events if their resistance proves strong enough, while a skilled German player could defeat Czechoslovakia quick enough to force things back onto the normal track of events. The Soviet Union and Germany could get into an early war with one another, but it's set up as a limited one that either one or the other will back out of to allow the main Eastern Front war to take place later. There are some very interesting choices to be made, particularly for Germany - do you bet on being able to hold the Soviets out of Poland for three months while fighting the Allies at the same time, or do you play it safe and go for revenge later?
It allows for ahistorical decisions (like Czechoslovakia standing up) to take place without ruining the game.
I think it'd be worth it to brainstorm some more alternative event chains for other ahistorical contingencies as well - for example, one that sets up a grand conflict between the Allies and the Soviet Union if the Allies reverse the Fall of France and instead defeat Germany early on.
Thoughts?
Basically, it involved AI Czechoslovakia sometimes refusing to concede its territory and going to war against Germany after a certain update to the game. The argument was between some players, who enjoyed the surprise and uncertainty factor and ahistorical possibilities, and others, whose main concern was that this would break the whole subsequent event chain (and the diplomacy system, since the Allies would be considered the aggressor, and the war goals, since Germany, now the one 'attacked,' would not set The Fall of France goal, etc.)
I brought up a proposal in that thread for an alternative chain of events that would serve as a contingency plan in that scenario. If I recall, it went something like this:
- Czechoslovakia under AI management will occasionally (5-10% of the time) refuse to give up the Sudetenland
- Germany will DOW Czechoslovakia. Czechoslovakia will NOT immediately join Allies, nor will Allies immediately join the war.
- Short phase (two weeks, three weeks, a month?) of Germany v. Czechoslovakia one-on-one war will ensue.
- If Germany defeats Czechoslovakia in that time, it will force the terms of the concessions onto Czechoslovakia: Germany gets Sudetenland and Bohemia-Moravia (cores on both), Hungary gets its cores, puppet Slovakia released. The Allies will guarantee Poland and events will proceed as usual.
- If Czechoslovakia manages to hold out until the end of that first period, the UK and France will get a decision (Stand By Czechoslovakia) that allows them to enter the war and Czechoslovakia to become a member of the Allies. Germany, as a penalty for its failure to blitzkrieg-conquer Czechoslovakia, will get cores on Sudetenland only and not on Bohemia-Moravia as a whole.
.
- If this second line of events follows, and then Czechoslovakia does fall, Poland will get a decision (We're Next?)
- Option one: Poland will join the Allies and the war against Germany. Things will proceed fairly normally from here.
- Option two: Poland concedes the Danzig Corridor to Germany and stays out of the Allies as an appeasement in exchange for a non-aggression pact with Germany
- If Poland takes the second option, the Soviet Union gets its own seperate war option which it will use to declare war on Poland while the Allies and Germany are tied up with each other, in which case it will conquer Eastern Poland and puppet the remainder.
- When the USSR attacks Poland if the Poles took the second option, the Allies will get a decision (which the AI will refuse but a player can take) to declare war on the Soviet Union in defense of Poland.
- Germany will also get a decision if the USSR takes Poland: declare a two-front war against the Soviets or bide their time.
- The German AI will only rarely take the two front war option. If it does, Poland will become an Axis member. Germany and Poland will fight a limited war with the Soviet Union: the Soviets will get something like a three month window to force a surrender on Poland
- If the Soviets force a Polish surrender, Germany gets an option of fighting on alone, or conceding Poland to the Soviets in a peace (the German AI would take the peace option).
- If Poland has still held out after those three months with German help, the Soviets will instead sue for peace, giving up all claims on Poland and signing a non-aggression pact with Poland and Germany (a Soviet player will get an event informing them that they face a coup from the demoralized army and will take massive penalties if they choose not to offer this peace). If the Soviet player chooses to fight on instead of offering terms, Finland and Romania will also get events that let them join the Axis and the war against the USSR immediately.
- Germany will then get the option to demand a territorial concession (of western Polish territories like Poznan and Silesia) from Poland after the Soviet ceasefire, to boot them from the Axis and betray them with a DOW and total conquest (German AI liable to do either of these options), or to leave the Poles at peace as a German ally (option for the player). Polish AI will concede the territories, Polish player could refuse, in which case Germany proceeds to option two, boots them from Axis, and declares war. Poland if booted from Axis and DOW'd becomes an Allied member.
- If, on the other hand, the Germans chose the bide their time option, the Poles will fight the Soviets alone and most likely get conquered. Germany will get a CB later after France falls to go war with the Soviets later.
- Final possibility: if both the Allies and Germany were to DOW the Soviet Union in defense of Poland, Soviet Union gets a special option to back down immediately and peace out with all, which the AI will take in lieu of fighting the Allies and Germany (comes with a big dissent penalty though). Poland then gets a decision (Whose Side Are We On?) - they can choose to join the Allies (thrusting them into war with Germany) or the Axis (at the cost of conceding those western territories like Poznan and Silesia). German AI will accept Poland's offer of submission; German player can refuse it and DOW them, forcing Poland into the Allies.
While there may be some kinks to work out in the chain of events I've proposed above, I believe in general it's a good outline to follow. Czechoslovakia and Poland are given options to seriously influence the outcome of events if their resistance proves strong enough, while a skilled German player could defeat Czechoslovakia quick enough to force things back onto the normal track of events. The Soviet Union and Germany could get into an early war with one another, but it's set up as a limited one that either one or the other will back out of to allow the main Eastern Front war to take place later. There are some very interesting choices to be made, particularly for Germany - do you bet on being able to hold the Soviets out of Poland for three months while fighting the Allies at the same time, or do you play it safe and go for revenge later?
It allows for ahistorical decisions (like Czechoslovakia standing up) to take place without ruining the game.
I think it'd be worth it to brainstorm some more alternative event chains for other ahistorical contingencies as well - for example, one that sets up a grand conflict between the Allies and the Soviet Union if the Allies reverse the Fall of France and instead defeat Germany early on.
Thoughts?