Paratrooper Drops - Preplanned

Nasr · Dec 5, 2014

So, I was wondering how many people were aware that:

You can queue up a paratrooper drop while at peace, so that as soon as you declare war on a country the paratroop drop is instant.

e.g.

I am Germany, about to invade Western Europe.

It is 0100 on 31st August 1939. I select my transport (with paratrooper onboard) and order them to perform a paratroop drop on Liege, Belgium (while still at peace).

I run the game until 0100 1st September 1939 - and dow Allies. The paratroopers are dropped at 0200 1st September 1939 (no wait time needed).

sunsterson · Dec 5, 2014

Broken.

Nasr · Dec 5, 2014

For MP games, this will mean a German win 100% of the time (in semi-competent hands), as the German player will have a foothold over the Belgian rivers 1 hr after war is declared.

I don't think it's broken - the Germans did exactly this at Eben-Emael. Paratroopers were on the way before any DOW was sent.

Secret Master · Dec 5, 2014

Good catch. I didn't know that.

Nasr · Dec 5, 2014

Secret Master said:
Good catch. I didn't know that.

Came across it accidently.

I thought I had DOWd Belgium - order paratroopers to land on Liege. Fast foward a day ingame - "Wait, crap, I haven't DOWd Belgium!, Argh". DOW Belgium, run game - "Wait, wth!?! How'd that happen?". Try same thing again.... evil grin.

Forster · Dec 5, 2014

That is definitely an interesting bit of knowledge. So is the fact that SM didn't know it.

mankle30 · Dec 5, 2014

If I remember correctly, Germany didn't actually declare war on any country other than the US.

ShoGuL · Dec 5, 2014

Yes, Germany was badly mistreated by the bloodthirsty capitalists who could not bear to see Germany come into it's own as a peaceful nation, and who sought to hamper and hamstring the Reich at every opportunity.

sunsterson · Dec 5, 2014

Nasr said:
For MP games, this will mean a German win 100% of the time (in semi-competent hands), as the German player will have a foothold over the Belgian rivers 1 hr after war is declared.

I don't think it's broken - the Germans did exactly this at Eben-Emael. Paratroopers were on the way before any DOW was sent.

MP wise it is balance breaking, basically France cannot do a single thing against Germany lol.

Secret Master · Dec 5, 2014

Forster said:
That is definitely an interesting bit of knowledge. So is the fact that SM didn't know it.

Shows you how often I try to drop PARA without issuing a declaration of war.

I'm assuming all MP games will now ban this preemptively. While there may be a historical precedent for it, the whole point for putting a delay in PARA in the first place was to prevent gamey strategies in the first place.

KevinG · Dec 5, 2014

sunsterson said:
MP wise it is balance breaking, basically France cannot do a single thing against Germany lol.

Has anyone else tested what happens if UK also pre-paradrops on hasselt? UK can afford to build 1 air TP and they start with ghurkas.

sunsterson · Dec 5, 2014

KevinG said:
Has anyone else tested what happens if UK also pre-paradrops on hasselt? UK can afford to build 1 air TP and they start with ghurkas.

It wouldn't work, they don't control when the war starts. Like Germany can do it because they know when to dow belgium, UK would be stuck in a guessing game. Although if it gets rid of the 24 hour delay even like a week after issuing the order, then we have a problem.

marxianTJ · Dec 5, 2014

It depends on what you mean about declaration of war Mankle, as for the Germans, they did formally declare war on various nations:

Norway, 24 April 1940
22 June 1941 - Germany declared war on the USSR (Ambassador Schulenberg hand delivered the declaration of war - although attacks had started earlier).
11 December, 41' is when Italy and Germany jointly declared war on the USA.

They'd have declared war on the French and the UK at some later point, but upon the invasion of Poland (which was staged under the pretenses of a false-flag attack) the UK and France honored their guarantee of Poland and declared on Germany, which made any Germany counter-declaration moot. They did what they could to try to convince the world (and the German population) that it was *Poland* who was being unreasonable, and that war with the French and British was not immanent.

KevinG · Dec 5, 2014

sunsterson said:
It wouldn't work, they don't control when the war starts. Like Germany can do it because they know when to dow belgium, UK would be stuck in a guessing game. Although if it gets rid of the 24 hour delay even like a week after issuing the order, then we have a problem.

Why would it matter when Germany DOWs if you can just set it during peace. That's how the exploit works for Germany so I don't see why it wouldnt work for the UK.

sunsterson · Dec 5, 2014

KevinG said:
Why would it matter when Germany DOWs if you can just set it during peace. That's how the exploit works for Germany so I don't see why it wouldnt work for the UK.

Isn't it work like, you set it 24 hours before then you dow, but if you set it like lets say a week early, and then you dow it doesn't work ?

actually ill test it.

edit: quick nasr delete this thread, it will be me you and kevin's dirty secret. jk

-Stukov-MK VII · Dec 8, 2014

Dang it Nasr

Your not suppose to give the farm away on all the tricks man!

And Germany will always get the drop first due to the the airfield being closer kev

Forster · Dec 8, 2014

Secret Master said:
Shows you how often I try to drop PARA without issuing a declaration of war.

I'm assuming all MP games will now ban this preemptively. While there may be a historical precedent for it, the whole point for putting a delay in PARA in the first place was to prevent gamey strategies in the first place.

Don't see why this one should be banned. Given how much preparation the French and British multiplayer have to set up blocks, this should be kept. First, it was historically accurate, and second, it will add a little more maneuver room for the Germans in their attack. It seems as if all the multiplayer games are turning in slug fests along the borders.

feye1 · Dec 8, 2014

Forster said:
Don't see why this one should be banned. Given how much preparation the French and British multiplayer have to set up blocks, this should be kept. First, it was historically accurate, and second, it will add a little more maneuver room for the Germans in their attack. It seems as if all the multiplayer games are turning in slug fests along the borders.

It does? How often do you play multiplayer in groups with experienced players in it with a good rule set? I only saw a few times Germany getting stopped by the Allies in France. And almost always the roster was just unbalanced. I think your judgement isn't really correct.

On a side note: I knew this trick and I don't think it's good for mp to allow such things.

Secret Master · Dec 8, 2014

Forster said:
Don't see why this one should be banned. Given how much preparation the French and British multiplayer have to set up blocks, this should be kept. First, it was historically accurate, and second, it will add a little more maneuver room for the Germans in their attack. It seems as if all the multiplayer games are turning in slug fests along the borders.

The whole problem with instant PARA drops is using them to complete encirclements or ninja key provinces on the fly. Or to ninja an extra axis of attack on the fly when a huge battle breaks out. That's why a delay was put in.

PARA are open to enough abuse already without allowing exploit to remain in effect.

-Stukov-MK VII · Dec 8, 2014

Yes secret master yes

Now help use your demi god status to influence hoi iv so we can make sure these things don't show up in hoi iv

Paratrooper Drops - Preplanned

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