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my daughter, abducted

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sreckom92

sreckom92

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Dec 17, 2012
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Here's a short story:

-Karen dynasty, Persia, not Empire yet
-awesome character, 5 children
-one of them is Azadeh, female, nice stats, favorite child
-not an heir, recently married to one of the nobles
-everything peachy
-war breaks out, Great Holy War from Cumania
-not much of a threat, lots of smaller armies
-Buddhist revolt in the east, medium sized army
-long march, didn't separate the army
-small Cuman army besieges Dohistan
-"bah, even if they win, not an issue, I'll crush them eventually"
-done with the Buddhist revolt, long march to Dohistan
-siege lost before the army arrived
-Azadeh, taken as a concubine
-"of all the places to siege, you find one where I married my daughter"
-looking for the abductor
-one-province count, Greek Tengri, eastern coast of Black Sea
-"oh lovely, another thousand miles to march"
-no diplomatic way to release her
-entire army (16 000 men) sent for the rescue
-small attrition
-medium sized Cuman army in the way
-12 000 men left, march continues
-another Cuman army, 10 000 strong
-"you just had to be a party pooper. Where the hell were you for the whole damn war?"
-8 000 men left, still not a critical number
-finally arrived at the Black Sea
-*epic feeling*
-clicked on the abductor's portrait
-Azadeh hates him, -100 relations
-5 month siege
-siege won, Azadeh liberated!
-taken as a concubine
-"wait, what?"
-not liberated, abducted!
-has "abductor" modifier, -50 relations
-"I just liberated you!"
-another negative modifier, set her as a concubine aside
-"but....I just wanted...you are free?..... my little girl?"
-my expectations:
-*Liam Neeson's voice* "You are alright darling. No one is going to hurt you anymore. Bad men are gone."
-but noooo....I'm the bad guy now. She even hated that guy, and had positive relations with me. Her father!
-"I just lost 8000 men to liberate you, you ungrateful brat!"
I abducted my abducted daughter.

Thanks for bearing with me.
I hope Way of Life will make these relations more realistic.
 
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This. Let's hope Paradox notices posts like these. Because similar stuff happens in the game all the time.
 
Voy said:
Yeah, a CB or plot to free relatives would be great.
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I would like that as well.

Castorem said:
This. Let's hope Paradox notices posts like these. Because similar stuff happens in the game all the time.
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Next DLC looks promising, and it mentions those relations between characters and lovers/concubines. Hopefully, it will bring some sense for situations like the one in the OP.
 
There were so many posts about Rescue CB that I think it was one thing that made the Devs think about WoL.

I have a similar story. King of Asturias, had my daughter abducted, and I abandoned all hope of rescue. She ended up as a Duchess in Germany, and I don't have the slightest idea of how she did that.
 
Had this as well :( so often this scenario.


But how do people get released positive modifier ? So it is in game.
(nor mercifull but released) only gotten that one time in all my rescue efforts.
 
Drake_Hound said:
But how do people get released positive modifier ? So it is in game.
(nor mercifull but released) only gotten that one time in all my rescue efforts.
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You can probably only rescue imprisoned characters. Different story for the concubines.
 
I hope Paradox adds traits like 'Family person' or 'selfish to determine how a character feels about their family, so that all your brothers dont suddenly hait you when you inherit because they also have a claim.. (seems pretty BS)
 
Red Roo said:
I hope Paradox adds traits like 'Family person' or 'selfish to determine how a character feels about their family, so that all your brothers dont suddenly hait you when you inherit because they also have a claim.. (seems pretty BS)
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Yes, it should be linked with traits like "Ambitious" or "Envious" and nullified with "Content" for example.
 
There really should be an 'insult' casus belli like in EU. Abducting someone's relatives should grant it. A victory would give you prestige, money and release all prisoners and/or concubines, but I can also think of a few other scenarios where a ruler might want to go to war against another ruler that slighted him. Think plot assassination attempts against himself or his relatives, missionaries and family members being sacrificed/executed, etc. Charlemagne already gets railroaded claims and events based off of such historical slights, so I see no reason why a more dynamic system couldn't be implemented for other rulers. The sons of Lodbrok invasion and the Mongol start date are other examples of wars fought over insults.

You can even make the benefits of a successfully completed 'insult war' dependent on culture and/or religion. Catholics fighting each other for example might only get the satisfaction of prestige and money, as their religious head would prevent territorial land grabs (he has to hand claims for that after all) but I see no reason for (unreformed) pagans to not grab every bit of occupied land in such a war, ditto Altaic peoples.

Would make for much more dramatic games. Wars weren't always ignited over formal claims or mere religious animosity, but also over passions like revenge.
 
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There shouldn't be a diplomatic insult CB in CKII. It makes no sense in a feudal society that your vassals would risk their lives because their ruler was offended. Fine in EUIV because they're now paid professionals, but it wouldn't be realistic beforehand.
 
Then make the "Insult" CB unique in that vassals (even Feudal ones) have to be called like allies. If the king rides out and begs his vassals to help him to rescue his beloved daughter from the norsemen who kidnapped her, then the vassals can each choose "Of course my liege! To arms!" or "Sorry, I don't have the resources to help you now"
 
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What if only tribal rulers got it, that would make sense right? Genghis Khan did it to the Persians when they burned the face of one of his emissaries.
 
mrstevehazzard said:
There shouldn't be a diplomatic insult CB in CKII. It makes no sense in a feudal society that your vassals would risk their lives because their ruler was offended. Fine in EUIV because they're now paid professionals, but it wouldn't be realistic beforehand.
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No, not for being offended, but wouldn't the vassals be bound by feudal contract to defend their liege and his/her family? If they were kidnapped, or executed, or imprisoned etc.
 
Red Roo said:
No, not for being offended, but wouldn't the vassals be bound by feudal contract to defend their liege and his/her family? If they were kidnapped, or executed, or imprisoned etc.
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Depends, I think. Tie it to crown authority maybe?
 
Red Roo said:
I hope Paradox adds traits like 'Family person' or 'selfish to determine how a character feels about their family, so that all your brothers dont suddenly hait you when you inherit because they also have a claim.. (seems pretty BS)
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So much this! History is full of family members that acted to betray their relatives and push their claims, but it's also full of ones that didn't and worked towards the well-being of the realm and their brothers. I would like there to be a type of Friends/Rivals 50/50 event that determines whether they feel like their claims on their liege are worth pursuing.

mrstevehazzard said:
There shouldn't be a diplomatic insult CB in CKII. It makes no sense in a feudal society that your vassals would risk their lives because their ruler was offended. Fine in EUIV because they're now paid professionals, but it wouldn't be realistic beforehand.
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I feel confident if you travelled back in time, abducted and/or murdered a close family member of a King with as much or more power than yourself, that they would launch an invasion if not otherwise occupied. If they didn't they would look pathetically weak to all and sundry. Vassals would probably also view it as a good opportunity to kiss up to a King as well rather than going "whatever your son is not my problem!" I don't think anyone followed the "rules" that strictly.
 
Personally, I'd prefer it not to be a CB, since then you'll have to declare a separate war for it. I'd much rather have it the effect of enforcing demands on anyone who has a close family member of yours' as concubine. This would be equally valid whether it's the top liege or a baron who has your relative.
If you can enforce your will on a foreign ruler, you're also pretty fit to demand relatives back. It could even tie in to getting all hostages back as well.
Note that this wouldn't matter if it's defensive or aggressive, just that you enforce your demands.

This would have the added benefit that a relative taken in the same war can be taken back before she's sullied, and you would not need to wait out a truce (In the event that the relative was taken during a war, not a Norse raiding party).
A "Diplomatic Insult" CB with money and prestige however would not be bad, it just shouldn't be for getting relatives home safe and sound.
 
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