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Base Bonuses for Religions - Suggestions and Ideas

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Jokolytic

Jokolytic

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Nov 25, 2012
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For consistency with EUIV (which already features this since release), realism, and balance, religions should come with some bonuses or even maluses. Buddhism already grants +3 Learning and Jain has vassal relation bonus, why not add some more for other religions? Drop your ideas and suggestions here! Here are a few important ones I'd really like to see:

• ISLAM (all branches): -5/-10 Liege Opinion
This is already done in the Project Balance mod and helps tremendously with Muslim blobs without having to rework Decadence for the millionth time.

• ORTHODOX: Temple Vassal Opinion +10
Orthodox Christianity has always had close ties to the state and the nature of bishop equality and making peace with the establishment could be simulated by this small bonus to satiate some eager Bishops.

• HINDU: +1 Martial
I wasn't quite sure about this, but I think it would help abstract Hinduism's relatively warlike nature compared to Buddhism and Jainism and might motivate Indian rulers to expand more out of India (which they never do in game).

Thoughts?
 
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Uh Jokolytic you should get a moderator to move this to the suggestion forum but with that out of the way
Most of those do fit quite well in my eyes but suggestion instead of having -5/-10 for all Islam make it for just the Sunni since it is mainly them that blob like crazy I see the Shia having a slight intrigue bonus (+1 or +2) since they kept coming back after disappearing from the Middle east multiple times and/or they can convert other Islamic provinces faster than others, and for Ibadi since they survived being by the big green blob and most other Muslims through the Middle ages give them an attrition bonus like the pagans.
 
Memoryofthelost said:
Uh Jokolytic you should get a moderator to move this to the suggestion forum but with that out of the way
Most of those do fit quite well in my eyes but suggestion instead of having -5/-10 for all Islam make it for just the Sunni since it is mainly them that blob like crazy I see the Shia having a slight intrigue bonus (+1 or +2) since they kept coming back after disappearing from the Middle east multiple times and/or they can convert other Islamic provinces faster than others, and for Ibadi since they survived being by the big green blob and most other Muslims through the Middle ages give them an attrition bonus like the pagans.
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Hmm, I really like that idea. I forgot about the Shia, haha. Intrigue bonus sounds great.

And uh, moderators please move this...I guess?
 
The Islam opinion malus could be something like "Iqta System -5/-10".
 
We actually have much more than what you suggested already. All pagans (..except west africans?) have combat ability bonus. Hindu has morale. Jain gives demesne bonus. Buddhism gives +4 learning. Then they have sects with further bonuses and opinion modifier for same/different trait.

Muslims have bonuses and penalties from the decadence system.

And guess what, these are not as important as what really differentiates the religions: the succession laws (pagans can only gavelkind, muslims have open, etc), the CBs (holy wars, great holy wars, conquests, invasions), the structure of religions (is there a religion leader? is it also a secular ruler? Can he excommunicate? Can a secular ruler hold a temple? etc) and secular organization (gender laws, female generals, different honorary titles), events.

Even when you look at EU4, the religions with nothing but numerical bonuses are the most boring ones. The more exciting ones are exciting because they have special mechanics.

What we need is unique and working mechanisms, not more number tweakings.
 
How long has there been an actual suggestions forum? I swear that didn't used to be there.
 
Numahr said:
Or come play Lux Invicta which has pushed this idea to its most insane extreme... ;)
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Yeah.

When I first look at LI I laughed and wondered, who would like to play a game based on a complete nonsense alternative history? And the idea of having Zoroastrianism and Christianity as the center of title (two religions about the "light") also sounds awful to me.

Until some day I wondered why there can't be more religions. Then I realize LI is what I was looking for...
 
Memoryofthelost said:
For about 1 to 2 weeks its not that old it was suggested that we need a place for suggestions so it would make it easier for devs to find new Ideas
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I suppose that makes sense. It should keep the main forumto more of a gameplay help and general discussion focus.

On topic tho, I would appreciate having some more religion-related buffs. Especially if certain heresies had different ones, it could give you more incentive to go against the mainstream.
 
Buddhists have base +4 learning I think all religions should have some sort of minor buff, but Catholics should get -10% fertility since so many dynasties died out historically and they have buffs from everything out the yin yang :laugh:
 
Christians have the biggest problem expanding although. Going back to Christian after playing as everyone else has left me feeling like "Damn expanding is hard". XD
 
Zohtun said:
Christians have the biggest problem expanding although. Going back to Christian after playing as everyone else has left me feeling like "Damn expanding is hard". XD
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Land claimants until you rule all of Christendom.
Marry Byzantine Princess, push claims / wait until you play as the heir and push claims.
You're now Half the Map.

From here it does get a bit tedious, since Christians don't have the same Kingdom level invasion CB as Muslims / certain cultures have.
But you still have Crusades and Holy Wars.
 
User29 said:
Buddhists have base +4 learning I think all religions should have some sort of minor buff, but Catholics should get -10% fertility since so many dynasties died out historically and they have buffs from everything out the yin yang :laugh:
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Well, most non-Catholics have polygamy and are unable to gain Chaste and Celibate, so Catholics are already "nerfed" in this sense.
 
ahyangyi said:
Well, most non-Catholics have polygamy and are unable to gain Chaste and Celibate, so Catholics are already "nerfed" in this sense.
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and yet it still feels like Christian dynasties never die out.
 
User29 said:
and yet it still feels like Christian dynasties never die out.
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Thats the game's demography. Rulers tend to live too long, and tend to have too many children living to adulthood. Some of that is because people can't handle the idea of their ruler dying before 50, some of it is reducing the risk of random chance ending people's games, and personally I think some if it is just Paradox not looking at the implications of the numbers they plug in (so every major dynasty has heaps of children, but they have to restrict baron-levels and others beecause the game can't handle the population).

As an aside, dynasties dying out (at least in the direct line - I won't touch this pull in the 5th cousin business the game loves) is hardly Christian only, its just well documented - for example the Il-khanate dissolved through lack of direct heirs.
 
Talq said:
Thats the game's demography. Rulers tend to live too long, and tend to have too many children living to adulthood. Some of that is because people can't handle the idea of their ruler dying before 50, some of it is reducing the risk of random chance ending people's games, and personally I think some if it is just Paradox not looking at the implications of the numbers they plug in (so every major dynasty has heaps of children, but they have to restrict baron-levels and others beecause the game can't handle the population).

As an aside, dynasties dying out (at least in the direct line - I won't touch this pull in the 5th cousin business the game loves) is hardly Christian only, its just well documented - for example the Il-khanate dissolved through lack of direct heirs.
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you know what would help with that... cadet branches...
 
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