How would the world look like without the Reconquista?

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Druplesnubb

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May 14, 2013
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This is something that I've been thinking about recently. Spain and Portugal are some of the most influential nations in the history of Europe. Both of them were pioneers in the age of exploration, an early advantage they used to conquer vast empires. Spanish and Portuguese are the second and sixth most spoken languages in the world, respectively. Their religion, Catholicism, is one of the two largest religious denominations in the world together with Sunni Islam (not sure which is bigger).

The thing is though, that if not for the Reconquista, the entire Iberian peninsula would have belonged to a different civilization, followed a different religion, and their elites would have spoken a different language. So I ask you, how would the world have looked like if the Reconquista never happened? Would a muslim Iberia have financed the same expeditions that the Christian Iberia did? Islam being the largest religion in the world and Arabic the second largest language in the world after Mandarin seems like no-brainers in that case. Would the larger Iberian connections to the Muslim world over the Christian world then result in places like Morocco and Algeria becoming colonial powers while England and France joins the colonization game later? Would we see a sort of Islam vs Christianity rivalry among the colonizers in the new world? What about possible religious conflicts in modern America? And that's not even touching the fact that some people believe the capture of Granada played a part in creating The Renaissance.

As a corollary to the above, how likely/unlikely do you think the Reconquista was? Looking at Iberia during the height of Islamic rule, how big probability would you give a Christian retaking of the peninsula?
 
I would guess France/England and Christian Military Orders + Nobles of other countries, mercs, adventures etc would make short work of anything not Christian in Spain before the 1490s. There is no chance that a Muslim Kingdom could survive right next to one of the strongest land powers that existed during that time frame.

If this would not happen somehow I would guess England and France would be stronger colonizing parts of the world. One of the main reason for exploration and colonizing stuff was to circumvent the Ottoman Empire and it's tolls on trade[silk, spices, salt?], so other Muslims have next to no interest in colonizing the new world.
 
Muslim Spain had rich cities but low population growth throughout the Reconquista times. Next to ambitious, quickly growing countries like France (or the Christian nations in Spain) such places don't last long unless they can regularly bring in fresh blood from abroad, and still retain power.

The Muslims in Spain relied heavily on their North African brothers in faith to help them - but that too was dangerous. The rapacious Berber warriors that ended up taking over Muslim Spain did their part in bringing down that splendid civilization. It wasn't all the "fault" of the Christian conquerors.
 
I would guess France/England and Christian Military Orders + Nobles of other countries, mercs, adventures etc would make short work of anything not Christian in Spain before the 1490s. There is no chance that a Muslim Kingdom could survive right next to one of the strongest land powers that existed during that time frame.

If this would not happen somehow I would guess England and France would be stronger colonizing parts of the world. One of the main reason for exploration and colonizing stuff was to circumvent the Ottoman Empire and it's tolls on trade[silk, spices, salt?], so other Muslims have next to no interest in colonizing the new world.

Why not? Granada survived 200 years of neighbourhood with Castille because it was beneficial to everyone (less for Granada). Castille got taxes, trade and tributes, Granada could trade with Christians with little customs applied, and North African good could enter Spain quite unburdened. The decision to end the Reconquista was political: the Castillian nobility had grown accustomed to a level of mercies, or bribes, that Henry of Trastámara had given in order to maintain his rule (he had usurped the throne after all, and was a bastard). The nobles wanted more every now and then. The Catholic Kings threatened their privileges, they rebelled or supported other candidates until Ferdinand decided that a common enemy unites like nothing else can. Granada had to go. Besides, Granada was spiraling towards a very bloody civil war at that time.

But have a different layout, say, a couple more Moorish states, rich and well connected to the trade routes of the Atlantic and the Mediterranean, and have Castille, Portugal and Aragon not unite, you might be on board for a modern day Muslims Granada. At least the possibility of Muslims being there.

Spain without Reconquista is hard to concieve, not because of the different nations, but because it can hardly imagine which scenario might make the Spanish monarchies weak enough. And France wouldn't do anything, France was very happy collapsing onto itself until Philip II came along. Half of France didn't pay homage to the French king. Maybe they, Toulouse, Navarre and Aquitaine, might lead the Reconquista. That could happen. After all, it was Raymond of Toulouse who led the First Crusade.

Now, Crusades are not guaranteed. They were an overreaction to Turkish mistreatment of Christian pilgrims in the Holy Land. Muslims were usually very tolerant of pilgrims; they paid taxes and goods, they usually traded too, they were the tourists of the age. The Turks, not so much. But there are no Turks in Spain, and unless you count the integrist Almohads as a possible trigger, there's still the thing that Spain is not the Holy Land. Santiago in Compostela is not Jerusalem. But it could happen, yes.
 
If for some reason the Caliphate survives in Iberia, I doubt that they would have as much incentive to go exploring for a new world as Spain and Portugal did because they would presumably have good relations with the Ottomans. So I don't think they'd be exploring for alternate routes to the Far East. My bet would be on England or France discovering the New World, but it would be later than 1492.

Another consequence would be that without Hapsburg Austria-Spain, France would dominate Europe from the 16th century on.
 
Why not? Granada survived 200 years of neighbourhood with Castille because it was beneficial to everyone (less for Granada). Castille got taxes, trade and tributes, Granada could trade with Christians with little customs applied, and North African good could enter Spain quite unburdened. The decision to end the Reconquista was political: the Castillian nobility had grown accustomed to a level of mercies, or bribes, that Henry of Trastámara had given in order to maintain his rule (he had usurped the throne after all, and was a bastard). The nobles wanted more every now and then. The Catholic Kings threatened their privileges, they rebelled or supported other candidates until Ferdinand decided that a common enemy unites like nothing else can. Granada had to go. Besides, Granada was spiraling towards a very bloody civil war at that time.

But have a different layout, say, a couple more Moorish states, rich and well connected to the trade routes of the Atlantic and the Mediterranean, and have Castille, Portugal and Aragon not unite, you might be on board for a modern day Muslims Granada. At least the possibility of Muslims being there.

Spain without Reconquista is hard to concieve, not because of the different nations, but because it can hardly imagine which scenario might make the Spanish monarchies weak enough. And France wouldn't do anything, France was very happy collapsing onto itself until Philip II came along. Half of France didn't pay homage to the French king. Maybe they, Toulouse, Navarre and Aquitaine, might lead the Reconquista. That could happen. After all, it was Raymond of Toulouse who led the First Crusade.

Now, Crusades are not guaranteed. They were an overreaction to Turkish mistreatment of Christian pilgrims in the Holy Land. Muslims were usually very tolerant of pilgrims; they paid taxes and goods, they usually traded too, they were the tourists of the age. The Turks, not so much. But there are no Turks in Spain, and unless you count the integrist Almohads as a possible trigger, there's still the thing that Spain is not the Holy Land. Santiago in Compostela is not Jerusalem. But it could happen, yes.

Granada lasted so long by virtue of being effectively controlled by Castille anyway. It was more valuable to remain under nominal Muslim rule as long as it paid tribute and lacked diplomatic options, and so was a vassal in all but name. Hence, it was not a Muslim state living on the borders of Castille, but instead a Muslim state under Castillian rule. Muslims controlling the entire Iberian peninsula would be a different enough story that I don't think the comparison to Granada is at all valid.

Muslim states on the border of France would be too big a target. The lands would always be there for the taking by any bordering Christian ruler/state. In times of strength they could always keep their lands but, but would likely be unable to make much of a push back. During any times of weakness they're likely to lose bits of land, and the losses would add up over time.

Moreover, a rich Moorish state in the south would be a perpetually tempting target, and would lack the backing of other strong states in the area to really hold on forever. The exact time frame could change, but the tide would still be inevitable.

Assuming the Reconquista didn't happen for whatever reason, I'd bet that colonization would look substantially different. Control over Iberia would likely remove the capability of Christian states to round Africa due to the long stretch of hostile coastline. I'd guess that any major trials would instead take a northerly route, going to Greenland and down instead. Perhaps then more open water sailing would allow for exploring down south, but that's iffy. I'd expect though to see the Muslims enjoy the access to the new continents though. Perhaps leading to more exploration of Africa as well.
 
This happens:

jour_j_13_colomb_pacha_couverture.jpg

(that's Columbus)
 
Not sure. But if the Christians were defeated in al-Andalus and the Muslims were defeated in the middle east by some combination of the Crusades and the Mongols, then perhaps the Spanish Muslims would be the ones looking for an alternate route to the far east to bypass the infidels.
 
Not sure. But if the Christians were defeated in al-Andalus and the Muslims were defeated in the middle east by some combination of the Crusades and the Mongols, then perhaps the Spanish Muslims would be the ones looking for an alternate route to the far east to bypass the infidels.
Even if they weren't, it's not like the Andalusian Muslims benefited greatly from the land route to the East. It's entirely plausible that some bright-eyed Mahommetan nobleman would wonder if it was possible to connect to the East by going West or South. Or that trying to find a non-Sahara route to the Ivory Cost would lead to further exploration.

Then again, it could also have gone the way of the Ottomans and you'd have the 1529 sieges of Vienna and Paris.
 
This happens:

jour_j_13_colomb_pacha_couverture.jpg

(that's Columbus)

Good one. The Jour J magazines are sometimes very interesting, if not by the story itself, by concept at least. What amazes me is that they almost never fall into France-wanks, they mostly go for France-downers like France ravaged by a civil war after the fall of the De Gaulle government, Paris divided by a Berlin Wall, France defeated and Germans in 1917...

Except for that time when...


Oh...
 
Actually they tried.

We have records that already in the mid-12th C. Muslim navigators from al-Andalus were making expeditions down the West African coast, trying to reach the Senegal and Guinea coast by sea, circumventing Almohad-dominated Morocco.

However, it will be noticed that the timing of these expeditions falls within the "second taifa" period, when al-Andalus and Morocco were under different rulers, a situation which ended when the Almohads finally crossed over to Spain.

So Christian powers did not add too much to this equation, other than being almost permanently inimical to Morocco. That said, blockades of access to the trans-Saharan and eastern trade was a political thing more than a religious one. Christian Genoese and Majorcan merchants had no problems, and enjoyed quarters in Muslim Moroccan and Granadan cities, much liked they did in Christian Lisbon and Seville.

The Italian factor should not be underestimated. They were the prime movers of the Atlantic exploration business - they brought in the capital and the expertise, both commercial and technical. And they were not particularly attached to anybody. They were as willing to go with Portugal as with Castile or Granada or Morocco.

The Genoese rivalry was not so much with Muslim powers, but with Venice, who had acquired a near-monopoly position in the eastern Mediterranean by virtue of its privileged relationship with Mameluke Egypt, and shut them out. The Genoese had bet on the Il Khanate and later the Timurids, but those states failed and the Ottomans were not nearly as amenable. It is really only after Kaffa and Constantinople fell when they turned to the western route. And they were not picky. Genoese and Pisan-Florentine expatriates pushed the courts of Portugal, Castile and Granada and Morocco for it. Only Portugal took them up, and merely because of the peculiar personality of its king, himself a merchant by instinct, with commercial experience while a young prince, who "got" what they were talking about. None of it was necessarily predicated on the reconquista happening or not happening. You just needed a greedy ruler willing to serve as sponsor.

(You will notice that in Columbus's case, the prime movers behind the scenes were not Castilian officials of pious Isabella, but Aragonese officials of machiavellan Ferdinand II, like Luis de Santangel. Even though the Columbus enterprise was all done in the name of Castile, and Aragon was theoretically out of it, the high levels of it was pushed and handled by Fred's men. It is only when Bishop Fonseca came on the scene that things changed.)

Marinid-Wattasid Morocco was too much in the throes of political anarchy throughout the 15th C. to theoretically have done it. Fez did not control the Moroccan coastal ports - they were in the hands of quasi-independent local governors and self-proclaimed maritime/corsair republics. And (by the 15th C.) Morocco lost its coastal ports altogether to Christian powers (Portugal & Castile again). This, more than anything, precluded it from being able to do anything by sea, even if they could be persuaded.

That said, keep in mind also that Morocco didn't really have too many Atlantic ports - with a few exceptions (e.g. Tangier, Sale), most were all new constructions. The traditional ports were on the Mediterranean coast side (Ceuta, Mellila, Nakur, Oran), not the Atlantic coast side.

But a non-reconquistated Spain would have been a different story. Just from what we know, al-Andalus had several major Atlantic ports - Lisbon, Alcacer do Sal, Silves, Faro, Tavira, Huelva, Seville, Cadiz, etc. some with working arsenals and experienced fleets, to which can be added the maritime expertise of Algeciras, Malaga, Almeria, Cartagena, Denia, Valencia, and, of course, Majorca, on the other side. That's quite a list.

We know at least that the Andalusian ships - fishermen, corsairs and/or merchants - from Lisbon, Alcacer, Tavira, Cadiz and Seville had been relatively active - indeed, it is probable that they were quite aware of Atlantic islands. At least we see that suggested in tales of Medieval Andalusian mariners, e.g. the "Eight Maghurin" of Muslim Lisbon and the navigator Khashkhash of Cordoba. So the naval resources were there. It is simply a matter of motivation and capital.

Motivation would be afforded by any conflict between al-Andalus and Morocco - and there was plenty of reason and occasions for that, indeed it was almost certain to happen. They were constantly at odds in their day, intervening time and again in each other's affairs, setting up puppets and pretenders against the other. The few times there was concordance accross the straits was when one side or the other was fragmented and weak and the other could "impose" itself. In the 10th C., Andalusians had the advantage, in the 11th-12th, Moroccans had the advantage.

All this depends on exactly what you mean by "no reconquista". No success at all? A little success, but not complete? Stalemated at what date?

The reason it is important to ask is, of course, the reconquista was a major factor in weakening al-Andalus, and making it susceptible and dependent on Morocco. But Morocco had its own other fronts to fight - on the southern Sahara and in the eastern Algerian front - which never allowed it to focus full attention on Spain. The greatest gains of reconquista were done precisely when the Moroccans were too busy elsewhere and left it up to the Andalusian cities to save themselves.

So if there were no taifa periods, or if the Christian powers were unable to exploit them, and al-Andalus emerged if not entirely united at least under a couple of great powers (say, a Sevillan-centered west, a Granada-centered south and a Valencia-centered east - just to mirror the Portugal-Castile-Aragon in the north), then the story could play out differently. In this situation, Morocco, would be merely a background player, a looming potential threat to the Andalusian states, occasionally lending support and mercs to one kingdom or the other, but unable to dominate, and usually rivalrous and excluded from the peninsula (much like France was to Christian Spain)

In such a configuration, I don't see a reason why Genoese entrepreneurs couldn't persuade the emir of Seville to make a direct sea route to Guinea gold and later a sea route east.

The only question which remains is the reconquista frontierland. Whether the Douro valley or the Tagus valley, there would be an emptied space between them, which would be a scene of continuous cross-raids but otherwise empty. It might seem "inconceivable" to allow such fertile land to remain unused. But it is not so inconceivable - as we saw in the Hapsburg-Ottoman frontier on the Balkans. It could remain no-man's land for a spell, and only gradually populated later as kingdoms congealed.

As for European crusades, mm, don't see that. Remember that during the height of the Crusades, all of al-Andalus was still in Muslim hands. Outside a couple of Crusader ventures (Lisbon, Silves), other European powers were a non-factor in Hispania. Not sure why it would be any different than it was.
 
Why weren't there any Andalusian crusades?
 
So Christian powers did not add too much to this equation, other than being almost permanently inimical to Morocco. That said, blockades of access to the trans-Saharan and eastern trade was a political thing more than a religious one. Christian Genoese and Majorcan merchants had no problems, and enjoyed quarters in Muslim Moroccan and Granadan cities, much liked they did in Christian Lisbon and Seville.

Not entirely true. It has been shown that Castille and Aragon dominated politics in North Africa, especially after the end of the XIIIth Century. What first began with Christian mercenaries used as bodyguards of emirs and sultans became an effective force of mild occupation and harrassment, a political tool for the Christian kings to allow them to control the policy of Morocco and Algiers (for Castille) and Oran, Tremece and Tunis (for Aragon).

The Italian factor should not be underestimated. They were the prime movers of the Atlantic exploration business - they brought in the capital and the expertise, both commercial and technical. And they were not particularly attached to anybody. They were as willing to go with Portugal as with Castile or Granada or Morocco.

If anyone could control the Andalusian states other than the Spaniards themselves, it's the Pisans and the Genoese.

(You will notice that in Columbus's case, the prime movers behind the scenes were not Castilian officials of pious Isabella, but Aragonese officials of machiavellan Ferdinand II, like Luis de Santangel. Even though the Columbus enterprise was all done in the name of Castile, and Aragon was theoretically out of it, the high levels of it was pushed and handled by Fred's men. It is only when Bishop Fonseca came on the scene that things changed.)

The Isabella myth casts a long shadow.

The only question which remains is the reconquista frontierland. Whether the Douro valley or the Tagus valley, there would be an emptied space between them, which would be a scene of continuous cross-raids but otherwise empty. It might seem "inconceivable" to allow such fertile land to remain unused. But it is not so inconceivable - as we saw in the Hapsburg-Ottoman frontier on the Balkans. It could remain no-man's land for a spell, and only gradually populated later as kingdoms congealed.

I think the "no man's land", unhabitated area between the Tajo and the Duero is an old historical myth that archaeology has largely shown to be a false assumption, but I can't find the source where I got this from. Sorry.

As for European crusades, mm, don't see that. Remember that during the height of the Crusades, all of al-Andalus was still in Muslim hands. Outside a couple of Crusader ventures (Lisbon, Silves), other European powers were a non-factor in Hispania. Not sure why it would be any different than it was.

Toulouse, Genoa, Pisa and Aquitaine might have been. Provence too. Maybe Visigothic Septimania would be a thing.
 
Not entirely true. It has been shown that Castille and Aragon dominated politics in North Africa, especially after the end of the XIIIth Century. What first began with Christian mercenaries used as bodyguards of emirs and sultans became an effective force of mild occupation and harrassment, a political tool for the Christian kings to allow them to control the policy of Morocco and Algiers (for Castille) and Oran, Tremece and Tunis (for Aragon).

Other way. Marinids intervened a lot in Granada and Castile. There were a score of military and political interventions by Moroccans in Spain - not only in the lead-up to Salado in 1340, but even after that. There were exactly zero interventions the other way.

Moroccans were a bigger player in Spanish politics than any Spanish power in North African politics. That said, it is true there were a bewilderment of cross-straits alliances which shifted every season. But this was usually because of internal problems in Castile and Granada, with various kings, princelings and pretenders requesting support and intervention from the Marinids in Morocco against their rivals. And the Marinids responded various times. Marinids sent their armies to support the embattled Alfonso IX, Alfonso de La Cerda, Infante Don Juan, etc. and had a voice in brokering internal agreements. Not so the other way. With one exception (a Ceuta pretender sponsored by Granada; at that time, Marinids did request Castilian intervention against Granada, while they themselves took Ceuta back).

The Battle of Salado was a vary scary moment for Castile, for at that moment, it seemed the Marinids might actually recover al-Andalus and turn the clock back a century.

I think the "no man's land", unhabitated area between the Tajo and the Duero is an old historical myth that archaeology has largely shown to be a false assumption, but I can't find the source where I got this from. Sorry.

The statement is admittedly a little oversimplified. But I'd be interested in finding it debunked. The records I have seen (including databases of fueros, tribute, tithe and arms lists from both sides) seem to support it.

Toulouse, Genoa, Pisa and Aquitaine might have been. Provence too. Maybe Visigothic Septimania would be a thing.

Toulouse, Provence & Aquitaine had their own crusades to deal with (Albigensians).

Pisa and Genoa were more interested in recovering Levantine ports. That's where the money was.

The Crusader interventions in Lisbon & Silves were side-shows - they were passing by on their way to the Holy Land. There was nothing actually originally directed at al-Andalus itself from outside Spain.

Pope was actually not keen on diverting manpower from the Holy Land to Spain. He gave a crusading bull, and a little encouragement, but not too much. He wanted al-Andalus to be a mainly Spanish thing and to send the northerners to the east.

Part of the problem was too much local Spanish politics. Popes were eager. But the Andalusian crusader bull (Divina Dispositione , issued April 11, 1147 by Pope Eugenius III) put the Andalusian crusades under the single central direction of Alfonso VII of Leon, "Emperor of Spain". He did a little recruiting abroad, but he mainly availed of the bull to "order" Portugal, Castile and Aragon to come under imperial Leonese leadership. And they, conversely, refused to as a point of political principle - "we don't have to attend the King of Leon's summons or subject our reconquista goals to his direction or approval". So it became a bit of power struggle between Leon's centralization goals and everyone else's decentralization goals. Alfonso VII managed to cobble together a couple of crusading jaunts, but really, it was a damper. Portugal, Castile and Aragon were more interested in proving they could reconquista all by themselves, quite independently of Leon. Threatened by papal legates, they might promise to come, but then simply not show up. Conversely, Leon was more interested in proving they could get P, C & A to obey them rather than actually doing a crusade. Any independent action by Leon (with foreign support, but without other Spanish powers) could be construed as "See? You don't need us. And we don't need you." So the crusading bull turned out to cause more division and inter-Spanish squabbling than a cause for uniting.

That said, by the late 12th C., the situation had gotten bad enough that Leon was completely isolated and had no recourse but to actually ally itself to the Almohads against its neighboring Christian kingdoms. Needless to say, it lost whatever credibility it might have. Pope gave up on it. And with it, any grand notions of a great Andalusian crusade. Pope simply decided to throw his political weight at strengthening Castile, Portugal & Aragon individually in their individual reconquistas.
 
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Other way. Marinids intervened a lot in Granada and Castile. There were a score of military and political interventions by Moroccans in Spain - not only in the lead-up to Salado in 1340, but even after that. There were exactly zero interventions the other way.

Not "official" interventions, but as I said, the Christian guard in Tunis, Oran and Fes was a powerful player in Barbary politics, which shows in the fact that the King of Aragon had sole authority to name its leader, often being a man of great lineage, or even of royal blood.

There's several articles on the matter, I think Dra. María Dolores López Pérez is one of the leading experts on this field, many of her articles are posted online freely (most in Spanish, some in French).

Moroccans were a bigger player in Spanish politics than any Spanish power in North African politics. That said, it is true there were a bewilderment of cross-straits alliances which shifted every season. But this was usually because of internal problems in Castile and Granada, with various kings, princelings and pretenders requesting support and intervention from the Marinids in Morocco against their rivals. And the Marinids responded various times. Marinids sent their armies to support the embattled Alfonso IX, Alfonso de La Cerda, Infante Don Juan, etc. and had a voice in brokering internal agreements. Not so the other way. With one exception (a Ceuta pretender sponsored by Granada; at that time, Marinids did request Castilian intervention against Granada, while they themselves took Ceuta back).

That is true, but I think you overestimate Moroccan influence on Castillian politics. But I don't know, I know Aragonese politics best, and I haven't seen much proof of Marinid, Hafsid or any other important North African state meddling intenally in Aragon, except for the (very important) Barbary corsair raids, which were also done by Christian merchants and corsairs. The XVth Century Mediterranean was a bit Caribbean in its piracy and corsarism.


The statement is admittedly a little oversimplified. But I'd be interested in finding it debunked. The records I have seen (including databases of fueros, tribute, tithe and arms lists from both sides) seem to support it.

I've tried to find the article I read the debunking on, but I haven't been able. I should revise my notes from university, because it's there that they explained the theory of the uninhabitated Duero and its supposed "myth" status.

Toulouse, Provence & Aquitaine had their own crusades to deal with (Albigensians).

Which didn't prevent Raymond of St Giles from leading the First Crusade.

I agree that Spanish Crusades are unlikely, since Crusades are a phenomenon that starts specifically with Jerusalem pilgrims being endangered by Turks, and a general situation of social disarray in Europe while the Papacy was recovering authority after the years of "pornocracy" in the IXth and Xth Centuries.

However, there were several invasions and sieges that were given the category of Crusade, and were not offsprings of the major Crusades, but state-sponsored invasions. Like the siege of Tortosa,