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j4freeman

j4freeman

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Aug 8, 2013
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When revamping the Andes, one would think you would put some effort into reading a minimal amount about a country you're changing, rather than just looking at its geographic extent. Case in point, the game's "Chimu" was known as Chimor, and still is today. The people inhabiting it known as the Chimu, rather than "Chimuans". If I'm just completely misinformed, please let me know, if not; come on paradox, this is a minor oversight, but it doesn't exactly instill confidence that research is done well on overhauls.

EDIT: Reading back over this, my language was extremely harsh for an area that I was only reasonably sure I was right on, but what's done is done, I suppose.
 
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Basically correct, although "Chimuan" refers to the superset of cultures related to the Chimu (Moche, Tallan, Sican, etc.), so it's not wrong, just overgeneral if there aren't any other Chimuan tags.

It does bug me that there's often a lot of neglect of the New World, but it's pretty hard to dig up all the info. There's a depressing lack of lay texts that capture anything besides THERE WERE THE INKAS AND THEY CONQUERED EVERYONE!!!1!
 
j4freeman said:
When revamping the Andes, one would think you would put some effort into reading a minimal amount about a country you're changing, rather than just looking at its geographic extent. Case in point, the game's "Chimu" was known as Chimor, and still is today. The people inhabiting it known as the Chimu, rather than "Chimuans". If I'm just completely misinformed, please let me know, if not; come on paradox, this is a minor oversight, but it doesn't exactly instill confidence that research is done well on overhauls.
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The Atlas of Ancient America (Coe, Snow, Benson) use the two term effectively interchangeably (explicitly interchangeably in the very first sentence of their section on the Chimu: "the Chimu, or Chimor, story can bein with the Classic lamayeque...". The state itself is described variously in different sources as the Kingdom of Chimor or the Chimu Empire.

So while Chimor would certainly be correct, and perhaps the most correct, Chimu isn't quite the fundamental mistake you make it out to be.
 
j4freeman said:
When revamping the Andes, one would think you would put some effort into reading a minimal amount about a country you're changing, rather than just looking at its geographic extent. Case in point, the game's "Chimu" was known as Chimor, and still is today. The people inhabiting it known as the Chimu, rather than "Chimuans". If I'm just completely misinformed, please let me know, if not; come on paradox, this is a minor oversight, but it doesn't exactly instill confidence that research is done well on overhauls.
Click to expand...

If you think about it, the "-an" suffix to change a place name to the people living there is basically a quirk of European language; from Indian to Andean, African to Indonesian, nobody is anything"-an" in their native language. These sorts naming differences are essentially a byproduct of romanization, so its best to just ignore them.

I am also led to believe (I could be wrong) that all languages that were known to have been spoken in Chimor are now extinct languages. If that is the case, unlike Maya, Quechua or Nahuatl, we do not have native speakers to serve as the definitive guide to how a name or word should be pronounced. So it is difficult to say much about what anything "should" be called to a high degree of certainty.
 
A note on the Chimu/Chimor issue: Andean phonologies often parse "u" as /ɔ/, so I'd speculate that the two are actually much closer in pronunciation than it might seem. That said, I still think it makes more sense to use "Chimor" as the place, and "Chimu" as the demonym.

The languages spoken in Chimor (mostly Quingnam and Mochica) are mostly lost unfortunately, but you can find a few words and texts on Spanish wikipedia here.
 
So pretty much the OP needs to put some effort into reading a minimal amount about the country he wants changed :p
 
While the language I used was a bit harsh, France were sometimes referred to as the French Empire, and we don't go around calling their nation simply "French". I'm sure the Chimu would have thought the game should be called "Chimua Universalis" though, they were such Chimucentrists. At least that's what my minimal amount of reading says. Anyways, I'm sure Paradox actually read up on it, it's just not the naming scheme I think of when I think of the region.
 
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Again, I point you to the fact that there are printed sources specialized in American history that consider the terms Chimu and Chimor essentially interchangeable.

Like I said, Chimor may be the most ideal term, but Chiimu remains a valid one.

It's more or less equivalent to calling the country Inca rather t han Tawantisuyu.
 
hangmanwa7id said:
A note on the Chimu/Chimor issue: Andean phonologies often parse "u" as /ɔ/, so I'd speculate that the two are actually much closer in pronunciation than it might seem. That said, I still think it makes more sense to use "Chimor" as the place, and "Chimu" as the demonym.
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Agreed, if only because at least wikipedia does the same, which creates a sort of baseline level of consensus:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimor (realm)
vs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimú_culture (the people or culture)
 
"Wikipedia does it" is not much of a reason to follow. Wikipedia has been known to be wrong or woefully outdated on several topics dealing with pre-colombian americas.

Wikipedia should always follow, never lead. When people start sourcing wikipedia, you get a feedback loop of secondary sources quoting it because it's on wiki and wiki quoting those same secondary sources to confirm what they say.

Again, that's not so say Chimor would be wrong. It might even be a better choice. But Chimu remain a valid name to use, not a mistake.
 
Well I just went through about my written/online sources I use for this region, and they do seem pretty evenly split on the matter. While Chimor is still more correct in my view, it goes to show that you should always double check your information before accusing Paradox of getting something blatantly wrong, especially when anglicization is involved.
 
j4freeman said:
Well I just went through about my written/online sources I use for this region, and they do seem pretty evenly split on the matter. While Chimor is still more correct in my view, it goes to show that you should always double check your information before accusing Paradox of getting something blatantly wrong, especially when anglicization is involved.
Click to expand...

but paradox is Swedish
 
Like I said, to me it's not very different from using Inca over Tawantisuyu. The former is the name of the people and sometime used for the state, the later is the more formally correct name for the state. But at the end of the day, in english and other languages, while one is probably most accurate, the other is a perfectly accepable hoice.
 
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