Opinions on Autonomy

AdamonEU4 · Oct 31, 2014

Hey guys,

I haven't yet had time to play the patch/expansion but am greatly looking forward to it. Having read a lot on the forums I want to hear your overall opinions on Local Autonomy, as it was a mechanic I was quite looking forward to. Also it would be nice if you could say a little on what you think of the new unrest mechanic.

Thanks.

in heaven · Oct 31, 2014

Positive. I love this addition to game, but to state any more than that, ill have to play abit more.

Azhcristokos · Oct 31, 2014

I saw some people write that successful New World countries will end up with the majority of their provinces at permanent 50 percent autonomy because of the penalty given to colonial provinces. If they could make it so that that isn't the case when these provinces are in their home region, that'd be cool.

Kalderus · Oct 31, 2014

Azhcristokos said:
I saw some people write that successful New World countries will end up with the majority of their provinces at permanent 50 percent autonomy because of the penalty given to colonial provinces. If they could make it so that that isn't the case when these provinces are in their home region, that'd be cool.

They won't be doing that, unfortunately, because apparently it's WAD that way. They decided nerfing the "exploit" ability of players in Europe "migrating" to the Americas was more important than having a decent experience as native nations. Enjoy that 50% autonomy forever, we can't have some Brittany player in the office mp game moving his capital to the new world, now can we?

ChildeR · Oct 31, 2014

Kalderus said:
They won't be doing that, unfortunately, because apparently it's WAD that way. They decided nerfing the "exploit" ability of players in Europe "migrating" to the Americas was more important than having a decent experience as native nations. Enjoy that 50% autonomy forever, we can't have some Brittany player in the office mp game moving his capital to the new world, now can we?

In one Castille game I played AI Portugal turned into an absurdly rich superpower upon losing Lisboa and moving their capital to NA. Suddenly those -75% tax provinces were giving them full taxes, production and manpower and they were keeping/collecting most trade. Plus they could colonize quicker with the shorter colonist travel times.

I'm not sure permanent LA floor is the correct fix, but I fully support fixing it. How bad is that 50% LA, really? Honest question, haven't played enough yet to decide myself.

Gotipe · Oct 31, 2014

Rofl even if the colonised provinces directly border one's own country too? An eternal 50% reduction of all that's worth something for non-European countries seems like a massive blow to my future West African adventures, =/

Lord Finnish · Oct 31, 2014

I haven't played long enough to judge its effect on gameplay but as a feature I like it.

blackchoas · Oct 31, 2014

Other than the rather corner case issue about colonies and there minimum autonomy

The system seems decent, I don't think people have full experianced the range of ways autonomy can work out and effect your game. I think one of the biggest deals you don't hear much about yet is that high autonomy lowers the war score needed to take a province in a peace deal, so if a province changes hands a few times before you take it, you can get it on the cheap but will also be dealing with high autonomy which means it give us little back on the front end

Its also basically the new version of harsh treatment and harsh treatment is kinda something else now, don't wanna worry about provinces revolt just jack up there autonomy, it will go down in time depending on if your at war or your government type, and of course events can effect it too

Rajul · Oct 31, 2014

The idea is very good. The numbers however are kinda off.
30 years of increased unrest for lowering autonomy is too much.
75% of autonomy for a newly integrated vassal is too much. 50 % would be more reasonable; you have already paid dip points and waited some years before after all.
25 autonomy every 30 years seems a bit unrefined. 10 autonomy every 20 years would offer more subtlety.
There needs to be a way to decrease autonomy floor for colonized provinces on your home continent. Possibly with adm points: I would suggest that entirely removing the 50% floor should cost the same as coring the province. So every 20 years, when you decide to decrease autonomy by 10 points, you also pay 20% of this cost to decrease the floor.

Chamboozer · Oct 31, 2014

It's a great addition because of the potential for expansion. It's good for gameplay - you get a neat tradeoff in that provinces take longer to fully integrate and you have another option for dealing with revolt risk. It does nothing with regard to historical accuracy because autonomy doesn't seem to get affected by actual scenarios where autonomy would be relevant in real life, and it just goes down slowly over time rather than being a struggle for the player. It's also not tied at all to administrative power as far as I'm aware, which is very strange since logically you'd expect the two to be very closely related. The important thing is Paradox has a neat new mechanic they can mess around with and expand on (hopefully) until it becomes a significant and interesting aspect of gameplay.

Saufsoldat · Oct 31, 2014

The only real issue I've had so far is reducing unrest. Giving you a flat +10% unrest for 30 years is ridiculous. It should decrease over time just like nationalism.

iShurik · Oct 31, 2014

Saufsoldat said:
The only real issue I've had so far is reducing unrest. Giving you a flat +10% unrest for 30 years is ridiculous. It should decrease over time just like nationalism.

Yep, decreasing over time is needed for this modifier IMO.

Squirrelloid · Oct 31, 2014

75% starting LA after peacefully annexing a vassal is also insane. You waited 10 years plus whatever godawful length of time it took you to 'integrate' them, and they're less integrated than the provinces you burn to the ground and take by force.

Wizzington · Oct 31, 2014

Squirrelloid said:
75% starting LA after peacefully annexing a vassal is also insane. You waited 10 years plus whatever godawful length of time it took you to 'integrate' them, and they're less integrated than the provinces you burn to the ground and take by force.

This is exactly why. You take the province by force, you can impose your own order. You annex it peacefully and it's going to involve negotiation and concessions to the current rulers of that province.

Teutonizer · Oct 31, 2014

Finally have a break of RL

For the autonomy, well, I like the concept, but it looks like, well, not properly introduced. Playing as Cusco/Incas and Wales now - for the Incas it doesn't make any sence to have "colony" autonomy modifier, especially when the colony borders non-colony (one of the started provinces), I don't know why natives should have that nasty modifier; as for Wales, well, the only possible way (in my experience) to "Survive first! Britannia second!" is to flee to the New World/wherever the Red Sea Doom can't catch Small But Proud at least for a while, but with "colony" modifier, it's not so viable as before (so no celtic Britannia for a while), ofc that affects not only Wales but other OPMs with colony-fleeing was only option. My thoughts, natives shouldn't get that colony modifier permanent, but fading with time; and fleeing tags should also have the option to settle in their new home after some time (longer than natives for sure)

iShurik · Oct 31, 2014

Squirrelloid said:
75% starting LA after peacefully annexing a vassal is also insane. You waited 10 years plus whatever godawful length of time it took you to 'integrate' them, and they're less integrated than the provinces you burn to the ground and take by force.

75% LA but nearly no unrest, I'm fine with that.

achmedino · Oct 31, 2014

ChildeR said:
In one Castille game I played AI Portugal turned into an absurdly rich superpower upon losing Lisboa and moving their capital to NA. Suddenly those -75% tax provinces were giving them full taxes, production and manpower and they were keeping/collecting most trade. Plus they could colonize quicker with the shorter colonist travel times.

I'm not sure permanent LA floor is the correct fix, but I fully support fixing it. How bad is that 50% LA, really? Honest question, haven't played enough yet to decide myself.

If you ask me, fixing it is totally cool. The way the devs are fixing it is stupid though. The way I look at it, you either add in the system and make sure everything works as intended (so natives don't have to pay the price for an exploit that only Europeans can do), or you don't add in the system at all.

It seems that the way the devs look at it is: we'll try to add in this new system, and if we run into any problems that take some time to take care of, we'll just leave the system in and people will just have to deal with it.

finkellll · Oct 31, 2014

I haven't played Americas/Africa yet, but I thought those provinces would give Europeans minimum 75% LA? Why are people calling the 50% min a nerf to non-Europeans?

Freudia · Oct 31, 2014

Wiz said:
This is exactly why. You take the province by force, you can impose your own order. You annex it peacefully and it's going to involve negotiation and concessions to the current rulers of that province.

I'd have thought all that stuff would have been taken care of as part of the annexation process, not after the annexation process. Not that it really bugs me (I'm much more bothered by the permanent 50% autonomy floor on colonized provinces).

Squirrelloid · Oct 31, 2014

Wiz said:
This is exactly why. You take the province by force, you can impose your own order. You annex it peacefully and it's going to involve negotiation and concessions to the current rulers of that province.

Um... err.. what?

You annex it peacefully and you spend years integrating their bureaucracy into yours. They're working with you, not against you. Cooperative locals are vastly more willing to make concessions. And all that time spent 'integrating' them should represent, you know, actually integrating them?

You take it by force and you've got a puppet at the top who has to make concessions to the locals to get anything to happen. Not all resistance is armed.

It's historically indefensible, and it's game mechanically indefensible (since there's already a lot of time added to getting any use of the provinces from vassal annexation to begin with).

I'm not saying annexation LA should be zero. At worst it should be equal to LA from conquest (with a claim), and it should probably be better.

Opinions on Autonomy

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