A better way to chip apart the Caliphate?

AndroidEmperor · Oct 30, 2014

I am currently doing a Byzantine Empire game and have have taken Georgia, Balkans, France, Bavaria, and Italy. The Ummayads are next, but the caliphate's frequent Jihads and other attempts are annoying. I have also nearly wiped out Catholicism aside from Britannia.

About 2 rulers ago, the Abbasids tried to Jihad me and failed miserably. They survived 3 revolts and a decadence revolt which changed the dynasty, and suffered no repercussions from that aside from a changed dynasty. Funnily enough, they also counted as won the jihad(didn't get land) because the ruler of the caliphate was usurped by the revolt(How does that work? I was winning?).

I still require several holy sites and duchies to reform rome, mend the schism, and get my MA up.

My question here is what is a good way to do this? I don't think that having huge wars with the Holy War CB(I have 40k they have 25-ishk according to ledger) is an efficient way to gain territory as that would require long painful wars for just a duchy.

I can't think of any other CBs or good methods of dissolving this caliphate without resigning myself to a fate of one holy war each decade.

Any ideas on how to make this collapse?

(Apparently castrating 2 kings and the heir to the caliphate doesn't work)

Jephery · Oct 30, 2014

Capture the heir and educate him as Greek Orthodox. Then hopefully when he inherits a massive independence faction fires before he is overthrown.

Milith · Oct 30, 2014

Break truces. You don't really need the prestige for anything and you don't really care about the relationship penalty with muslim rulers.

You should be getting at least 15 prestige/month with an empire this big. Considering you get 100 prestige after you win a war and you only need 400ish prestige to break a truce, you should be able to holy war once every 2 years or so.

Le Comte · Oct 30, 2014

If you really want to splinter the caliphate, your best choice is probably to crush them in a war. I would recommend you use a fabricated claim or de jure claim, because if you use holy war it will give the caliph an opinion bonus for the length of the war. When I say crush, I mean CRUSH! The purpose of the war is not to win, its to destroy the caliph's power. So beat his army, then beat it again, then beat it again, then besiege all of his demesne. The goal is to provoke an independence revolt, and to ensure that the caliph is too weak to win it. This strategy is obviously best just after a succession. You don't have to end the war until you want to, so in theory you can shepard those emirs all the way to independence. Fair warning, I haven't done this before on such a large scale. I've done something like it to the ummayads, and even then it took only a 1/4th of their territory maybe. But if you don't want to just grind them down with holy wars this is probably your best choice. That or convert to tengri (which could take awhile depending) or a reformed pagan religion for the kingdom level invasions, then convert back when you have what you want.

(Bonus points if you do this on a war they declare, since they will get the levy malus)

Just breaking truces as has been said is probably the easiest choice if you don't want to splinter the caliphate.

Sleight of Hand · Oct 30, 2014

In my current game (started on the latest beta patch) the Abbasids got to 100% (!) decadence and then collapsed; they have a huge dynasty but lost the caliphate to another family, and Africa, Egypt and most of the Persian realms broke up and became independent.

AndroidEmperor · Oct 30, 2014

Le Comte said:
If you really want to splinter the caliphate, your best choice is probably to crush them in a war. I would recommend you use a fabricated claim or de jure claim, because if you use holy war it will give the caliph an opinion bonus for the length of the war. When I say crush, I mean CRUSH! The purpose of the war is not to win, its to destroy the caliph's power. So beat his army, then beat it again, then beat it again, then besiege all of his demesne. The goal is to provoke an independence revolt, and to ensure that the caliph is too weak to win it. This strategy is obviously best just after a succession. You don't have to end the war until you want to, so in theory you can shepard those emirs all the way to independence. Fair warning, I haven't done this before on such a large scale. I've done something like it to the ummayads, and even then it took only a 1/4th of their territory maybe. But if you don't want to just grind them down with holy wars this is probably your best choice. That or convert to tengri (which could take awhile depending) or a reformed pagan religion for the kingdom level invasions, then convert back when you have what you want.

(Bonus points if you do this on a war they declare, since they will get the levy malus)

Just breaking truces as has been said is probably the easiest choice if you don't want to splinter the caliphate.

This is something I do in EUV a lot.

I think this is a pretty viable option, but it would probably be better to do when they call a holy war on me. That way, I have a +75 defending against foreigner invasion with everyone allowing me to stay in the fight, and they will not have the same bonus.

As for breaking truces, I guess you've convinced me it's actually a valid option.

Also about the capturing and educated heir... The conditions for that to happen are extremely small. Also I think he might convert back on succession.

Jephery · Oct 30, 2014

Yeah, it only happened once for me. When an Italian Catholic inherited the Byzantine Empire which promptly caused the entire empire to join an independence revolt. Instant balkanized Byzantines.

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A better way to chip apart the Caliphate?

AndroidEmperor

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Jephery

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Milith

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Le Comte

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Sleight of Hand

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