- they can, but ho hindu will do this because zunists does not have castes.
Is Zunism's Placement in the Pagan Group Appropriate?
- Thread starter kbernges
- Start date
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Because I don't think, and don't take this as gospel though, that you *can* have an unreformed religion in the non-pagan group, mechanically speaking. It would be like having a variety of Christianity, whether main branch or heretical, that started unreformed. It just can't happen mechanically because being in one of those main groups come's with things like a base 20% MA and such.
Next DLC should be like a Sons of Abraham for non-Abrahamics to deal with stuff like this.
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Even though extremely important aspects to this game's core attraction including Crusades and Orthodoxy are nigh-empty, boring, and broken?
Nameless_Ensign said:
What would you Paradox do? As with other smaller religions, they have intentionally spread out the holy sites beyond its traditional hinterland to make reformation something to work at. You can't have them all in k_afghanistan. Given this constraint, Rozmarzony is right in that it makes some loose sense to place the holy sites in areas of traditional sun worship. So you get Baghdad, presumably an approximation for Sippar, whose patron deity was the Sumerian sun god Utu. And you get Heliopolis, whose patron deity was the Egyptian sun god Ra. It's completely reasonable to imagine a Zunbil religious revival would value these sites of ancient solar worship.
As to what religious group they should be in, I think that pagan is the best choice. I conjecture that they're a mishmash of tengri pagan beliefs from the White Huns with some Indian and a dash of Persian influence. But the most important characteristic is that the religion was unreformed, lacking any kind of organized priestly structure from what we can tell.
Hellenic Paganism and Generic Paganism are pre-reformed in that they are already reformed thus does not need to be reformed. It's just that they have no advantages nor flavour since they're supposed to be placeholders for historical figures, not an actual playable entity (though you can ruler design it in).
I'm gonna let you think about how you worded that for a minute.
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Done?
They have no reformation mechanic but they have aspects of reformed faiths due to their past centralized structure, except for the generic "pagan" of course. Thus they are not reformed in the game's terms.
This is from the 00_religions.txt file which contains the data for the religion mechanics and what they are:
Code:
hellenic_pagan = {
graphical_culture = westerngfx
[B]pre_reformed = yes[/B]
icon = 37
color = { 0.6 0.1 0.1 }
god_names = {
GOD_JUPITER GOD_MERCURY GOD_MARS GOD_VENUS GOD_MINERVA GOD_VESTA
}
evil_god_names = {
PLUTO
}
crusade_name = GREAT_HOLY_WAR
scripture_name = THE_LEGENDS
priest_title = AUGUR
priests_can_marry = yes
female_temple_holders = yes
max_consorts = 3
religious_clothing_head = 3
religious_clothing_priest = 3
}That line indicates that this particular religion is indeed pre-reformed. The reason it is missing things like Pagan Holy War is because it is intentionally left out in the CB section of the game. Having double checked the file, it would seem that I was wrong about generic Paganism however.
If something is "pre-reformed" it is not reformed. Hence the "pre" prefix.
This is just English.
Not in CK2 code since all the other unreformed Paganism lacks this line. I'm pretty sure you can demand religious conversion as a Hellenic Pagan while this option is unavailable to all the other unreformed Pagan religions.
What, are you serious? No, just... no. Have you ever had pre-cooked food? That doesn't at all mean it hasn't been cooked; it generally just means that it needs to be heated in a microwave and stuff because it's cold after having been stored for preservation. Hellenic paganism is the TV dinner of the CK2 pagan faiths.
You've never had microwave food? They're pretty good you know, despite being quite rubbish.
Open flame or oven, only. Microwaves are for communications arrays and spectroscopy.
(Of course I've eaten microwaved food, it just makes it all rubbery {popcorn included} and is generally a bad way to cook.)
I don't disagree, however sometimes you have to enjoy the worst things in life if not for the sake of better appreciation of great things, but just for shits and giggles.
He's not entirely wrong since the prefix "pre-" can mean something that has occurred prior though in this case like microwaved meals and shitty sausages, it means that it has already been done before.
The ones I suggested stretch from western Afghanistan to the east coast of India for the most far-flung one.
As for Hellenic Paganism... they start reformed. They even get the +20% MA for Organized Religion. They just don't get any of the other benefits of reformation... including the fact they retain the horrible probability of converting provinces of an unreformed pagan.
Looking at the feedback, I think I do favour the Zunists starting unreformed, but I still think I'd prefer to see them in the Indian group and a holy site rearrangement.
It also means "before" as in prejudice meaning to judge something before knowing the facts, or premature meaning something before it is mature, or predicted meaning to know something before it happens. So a pre-reformed faith is the faith before it is organized. Hellenism has some things that are parts of reformed religions, the base MA for primary example. They are not a truly reformed faith.
Judging by the fact no other member of the Pagan religious group has pre_reformed = yes, and judging by the fact that no other member of the pagan religious group starts with the Organized Religion MA bonus and doesn't gain it until reform, and third of all that it cannot reform, and third of all the fact that the only other Pagan group religion that CANNOT be reformed is at this point disabled in the ruler designer (generic Pagan), it's safe to conclude that in mechanics terms, Hellenic is reformed.
The way the coding works, I'd say that it means already reformed rather than before reformed also because there's no such thing as reformed Paganism. The reason they are missing most reformed mechanics is because they were purposely left out on the fleshing out. If you just add their abilities in the 00_cb_types.txt under the CB section amongst others, as well as giving them a religious head (cause why not), they will feel much more like a proper organised religion. However, like I said, the intent of their existence is not for gameplay, but a placeholder. Nothing more, nothing less.
And all of that is also explicable by Hellenism being unreformed and unreformable but with certain aspects of reformed religion. It has no head, which admittedly the reformed Indian religions do not either, but it does have the MA base which they do but nor does it have any sort of holy war or holy order which they do, though the Jains don't have the holy war for even a county but that's part of their pacifism.
It's not reformed, it's a generic faith with no real mechanics but just happens to have enough mechanics to model the fact of it being semi organized at one type and that Hellenic rulers could have several wives.