Aragon - Aquitaine De Jure?
- Thread starter Mikey-T
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So it's the year 867. Are you running mods? Did you just start the game?
If you answered no and yes, you should post this in the bugs section.
If you answered no and yes, you should post this in the bugs section.
no mods, yes just started (Jan 1, 867)
Also I'm running the beta patch and haven't checked if its like that without it or not.
Also I'm running the beta patch and haven't checked if its like that without it or not.
they probaly made a mistake, instead of making barcelona dejure aquitaine in ToG they accidently made aragon de jure instead.
Hah, and I thought there was some sort of historical justification for this which I wasn't aware of.
It did make for an interesting early life-and-death struggle with Aquitaine when playing as Navarra.
It did make for an interesting early life-and-death struggle with Aquitaine when playing as Navarra.
I do sometimes see Aquitaine + this region written off as a vague Aquitaine region in other sources, I haven't been able to find it back yet though.
Actually, not even Barcelona should be de-jure Aquitaine in ToG start. It isn't in karling hands in the CM start and there's less than a century between that and ToG start - no time for it to drift.
Thus, it should stay de-jure Aragon as is.
Thus, it should stay de-jure Aragon as is.
I think it's because it should move with Aquitaine, in case West Francia inherits and then loses it. Avoids the WF-Aquitaine-WF sandwich from happening every time.
There's no logical reason for a large de jure Aragon anyway, so no. Your logic could just as easily be applied to mean that shouldn't be de jure aragon until 1250. Funnily enough the Treaty of Corbiel when France officially renounced its claims on Catalonia wasn't until 1258.
IRC Barcelona was not even part of Aragon until the XII century. IMHO it would be more fitting to put Barcelona as de-jure Aquitaine/West Francia.
This is the reason I am ambiguous about the whole de jure concept in general. Barcelona changed hands between catholics and muslims and eventually gained independence far too often to be considered an inherent part of any kingdom IMO. Similar with Mallorca.
I believe the problem is that every ruler or country would have their own territorial pretensions, so maybe both the HRE and ERE would consider Rome as part of their empire at some point. IMO, the ideal way of handling de jure territories would be to make it possible for different same-tier de jure areas to overlap.
Claiming that everyone agreed on what belonged to each empire/kingdom/duchy is a silly notion... If that were true, I think that wars would have been far less common in Medieval Europe.
Gavelkind sandwiching shenanigans should be changed, so that, for instance, if Hardrada wins the struggle and then loses England, Cornwall won't stay as a part of Norway. One could argue that Cornwall was much more a part of England than Norway.
Barcelona changed hands before the union with Aragon, afterwards they were inseparable.
oh, the de jure concept is fine. it could be largely expanded with cbs and de jure instant integration decisions for disputed areas like this however.
I wondered too if there's an historical reason why it is. I doubt it is an error - you don't make aragon de jure part of aquitaine 'by error' - but the date might be mistaken - it is de jure aquitaine in 769 too, and maybe they just messed up and let it de jure aquitaine in 867 ? (I can't think of a reason why it'd de jure aquitaine in 769 though. Charlemagne surely leaded military expeditions in the area, but he didn't conquer anything, did he ?)
This is most likely an error. It is true that some territories south of the pyrenees were taken (Spanish March), but it never reached so far that I know.
It could be some kind of historical stretch from Paradox to prevent muslims from invading the whole peninsula. Still, it wouldn't make sense that Aragon is part of Aquitaine but not Barcelona.