Colored Italians?

delpiero1234

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• Oct 20, 2014

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• #1

So my Italian Doge married a Nubian woman. Their mutual daughter is also colored but her culture is Italian. Shouldn't her culture be Nubian? I really doubt that in the 10th century colored Italians existed.

 

V

VienLa

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• Oct 20, 2014

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• #2

....what is that even supposed to mean?

Racism is a lot newer than you think it is. Back in those days if you could convert them to your religion, they were equally human. Unless they weren't noble. But probably she's "noblier" than you, since you're a burgher.

 

H

HeroOfCows

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• Oct 20, 2014

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• #3

Culture refers to upbringing - language, mannerisms, etc. Graphical culture can be Nubian, Greek, English or whatever, irrespective of someone's actual culture.

 

H

Heatth

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• Oct 20, 2014

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• #4

Culture =/= race. Children inherit the culture from the their primary parent (usually the father, but the mother in matrilineal). Their race will be random from either one. In game terms, the race is what they look like, what culture is what matter for diplomacy (also effect what they wear).

 

Thure

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• Oct 20, 2014

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• #5

Othello was a coloured Italian!

 

victimizer

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• Oct 20, 2014

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• #6

Yes there were some black people in middle ages Europe. Not many at all, but they weren't completely unknown to European people.

 

Kljunas

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• Oct 20, 2014

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• #7

Culture is totally different from genetics in CK2. Culture isn't set in stone and can change through education and other events.

Randomly generated characters will use their culture's "natural" portraits, but characters who are born will have an appearance that only depends from their ancestry, not from their culture.

(Clothes depend on culture though).

 

M

Michael B

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• Oct 20, 2014

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• #8

In one of my games, the Kaiser's of the HRE were black.... and not from coming from the Black Forest.

I was my doing , I had at one point married my Armenian Doux's to an Ethiopean woman.. ( you should have seen the size of her Stats!) then one of the children married a German Duke, couple of generations I noticed the Kaiser and his heir weren't super Nordic looking and traced it back to that marriage

fun stuff, but realy the game 'genetic graphics" stay the same no matter what culture/religion they get converted to.

 

thevmag

is like nipples on men

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• Oct 20, 2014

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• #9

To put it even more simply: skin colour=/=culture. Heck, skin colour means nearly nothing, but we have put such massive emphasis on how much UV defense you get.

That your daughter speaks Italian, eats Italian, thinks in Italian-taught concepts, carries Italian values, and has black skin doesn't mean she's Nubian.

 

delpiero1234

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• Oct 20, 2014

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• #10

Kljunas said:

Culture is totally different from genetics in CK2. Culture isn't set in stone and can change through education and other events.

Click to expand...

That explains it. Thanks!

 

Dunaden

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• Oct 20, 2014

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• #11

You need to check out "Dennis Hopper's scene with Christopher Walken" in the movie True Romance, this is all explained there

 

Thure

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• Oct 20, 2014

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• #12

thevmag said:

That your daughter speaks Italian, eats Italian, thinks in Italian-taught concepts, carries Italian values, and has black skin doesn't mean she's Nubian.

Click to expand...

And has an Italian name too...

 

A

AvroLancaster

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• Oct 20, 2014

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• #13

Man, this thread is just so... retro.

 

unmerged(652342)

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• Oct 20, 2014

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• #14

delpiero1234 said:

So my Italian Doge married a Nubian woman. Their mutual daughter is also colored but her culture is Italian. Shouldn't her culture be Nubian? I really doubt that in the 10th century colored Italians existed.

Click to expand...

- so in your opinion Obama is not american but kenyan?

 

Bj0rn

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• Oct 20, 2014

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• #15

RussianBias said:

- so in your opinion Obama is not american but kenyan?

Click to expand...

Obama's not american, he's 'MUrican.

AvroLancaster said:

Man, this thread is just so... retro.

Click to expand...

Yes, calling black people "colored" is rather retro, if not downright racist sounding...

 

delpiero1234

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• Oct 20, 2014

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• #16

RussianBias said:

- so in your opinion Obama is not american but kenyan?

Click to expand...

I think some of you misunderstood my thread. I thought that maybe in the 10th century people were not as open-minded as they are today and that culture back than was mostly defined by race.

Back to your question: Of course I think Obama is American but I also live in the 21st century and not in the 10th century.

Bj0rn said:

Yes, calling black people "colored" is rather retro, if not downright racist sounding...

Click to expand...

I was taught that calling them black is racist and colored is a neutral term. No offence meant.

 

GothicEmperor

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• Oct 20, 2014

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• #17

delpiero1234 said:

I think some of you misunderstood my thread. I thought that maybe in the 10th century people were not as open-minded as they are today and that culture back than was mostly defined by race.

Click to expand...

'Race' in the modern sense didn't exist until it was invented by Germans pseudo-scientists in the 18th century. People thought physiological differences were due to geography (which isn't inaccurate) and language and culture mattered more in regards to identity. You couldn't be more wrong.

 

Will Steel

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• Oct 20, 2014

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• #18

@OP:

The game divides a person on three bases - religion, culture and ethnicity.

Religion represents the faith they follow. Culture represents the language they speak, the way they live and such. And ethnicity is a hidden thing representing how they look, what race their looks are decended from and inheriting features from parents and such.

These things are separate. Ethnicity doesn't represent culture or language. Your Doge's daughter may be ethnically Nubian, but she is culturally Italian, so she speaks Italian and lives in the way of Italian people.

It is the same as having a courtier who comes from Greek ethnicity, but speaks Persian language and lives in Persia, and follows Zoroastrianism. Or in real life how you see immigrants from various ethnicities arriving in the west, speaking English (or the local language), and following various religions of their choice.

This, I hope, pretty much sums it all up.

 

Jess135

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• Oct 20, 2014

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• #19

How about there's no such thing as a racist way to describe an ethnicity and what matters is how you treat them and how you think about them?

 

Thure

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• Oct 20, 2014

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• #20

GothicEmperor said:

'Race' in the modern sense didn't exist until it was invented by Germans pseudo-scientists in the 18th century. People thought physiological differences were due to geography (which isn't inaccurate) and language and culture mattered more in regards to identity. You couldn't be more wrong.

Click to expand...

I don't think race was just a German invention... One of the first ones who start with it was Carl Linnaeus a Swedish scientist. Then we have the French Georges Buffon and the Dutch Petrus Camper. Or Thomas Jefferson in the USA. We have Scottish Lord Kames and the English Charles White and Edward Long. French Julien-Joseph Virey. In the USA Samuel George Morton, Josiah C. Nott and Louis Agassiz. But okay... Racism is a German invention... of course... We Germans are the evil of the world...