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What is causing muslims to be so crazy good now?

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Not having played with Muslim characters in game, I don't know if these decadence numbers are broken or working as designed.

What I do know is that the ERE should not be reduced to 100 realm size in 100 years of game time and taken over by the green blob starting with the earliest Charlemagne start. Anything is possible, I suppose.

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They do have a ton of possible little tiny wars for the battles and sieges to bring down the decadence.

Which isn't a defense, playing in 769 you're essentially constantly at the mercy of the Green blob or the Yellow blob and they're crazy stable until a century or two have passed.
 
All of their crippling bugs have been fixed and decadence has become a non-issue.

Hmmm... Would this be a good time to try a Muslim game? :p
 
Oriflamme said:
Whoever said any part of the world in game "should be a story" about anything? What ever gave you the idea that Byzantium was doomed to collapse from the very beginning? This whole Gibbon-esque notion that the history of Byzantium is just one long decline is utterly foolish. During the reign of the Makedon emperors, Byzantium was remarkably stable and was rising strongly. Even after Manzikert, the Komnenoi did their utmost to bring it back to power. They might have succeeded too, if not for the chain of disasters in the late 1100s leading up to 1204.

Nothing in history is inevitable in the long term. CK2 reflects this. Or at least it should.
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This. I don't really see in what way the ERE was doomed before the Seljuks and the Fourth Crusade.
 
Sunbro BigBoss said:
I think that a way to counteract those bonuses would be to give an opinion malus for high decadency. And maybe tie that malus to some technology, so that muslims are more on par to europeans in terms of stability evolution. Would also be interesting if decadence revolts destroyed all of the liege's highest tier titles so that any new caliph has to start over from scratch.
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Opinion malus for decadence should happen...maybe nothing TOO extreme but -5 malus per 10% decadence?
 
I kinda wish we could just go back to pre-CM decadence. Even with the beta patch, I'm getting a little sick of seeing Umayyads and Abbasids just chilin' with 0% decadence.
 
Anyways, my own frustration with watching the BGB sprawl across the southern half of the map aside, any anecdotal experiences with the Abassids/Umayyads/Muslims in general since the latest beta patch? If I keep twiddling my thumbs, any chance of that great ugly blob biting the dust on its own?
 
Tuominen said:
I dont have beta patch.. maybe I should? Just noticed in my game that Abbasid have swallowed Gupta as well... :(

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That seems like an ordinary CK2 game to me. Blobs be blobbing.

+1 to SuPerm and Crazy Scotland.
 
I like the opinion of adding more negative opinion modifiers and even De-jure vassals always looking for that independence faction over most other things , I would also add more EVENTS that make these rulers lose their primary titles.. ( Caliph no longer owns atleast 40% of the de-jure E_Arabia= % chance event fires E_Arabia destroyed / Caliph gets XXXX strong claims). Wouldn't limit this to only the Caliph but would like to see this with most area's, maybe even King titles. Would create the loss of a rebellion and stability of larger realms more of a challenge not only for AI but would imo make for a lot more fun for the player to maintain/bribe pass out land and really work that chancellor around the map to keep those factions down. As of right now yes, the caliph blob is silly but even as a player on the catholic side of things you can get extremely large empires going with a large array of cultures and rebellions are rare and weak. I've had only 2 ( what I would consider a major rebellion/ not the games idea of one) and both times I got the loyal veterans event ( 25k+ insta troops) which rofl stomped the rebellions for me. I was so happy as my ironman empire was saved , but then in the end, I was sad as the only challenge I've had in the 100's of hours already put into this DLC was cream puffed by insta terribad troops that I've hated so much and used myself.... I'm ashamed and will sit in the corner to reset my focus... maybe cry some..
 
Tuominen said:
I dont have beta patch.. maybe I should? Just noticed in my game that Abbasid have swallowed Gupta as well... :(

ck2_map_2_zpse2283608.png
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That's how the Abassids looked like for most of my 769 start game. However, in the early to mid 11th century they collapsed and fragmented (using the latest beta.) A very long but eventually successful crusade for Jerusalem may have been a factor, but since I had nothing to do with it I'm not exactly sure what caused the collapse. (On the other hand, I did take an active role in destroying the Umayyad blob.)

A fairly powerful Mussiad (sp?) Empire emerged from the ruins, but large segments of the Abassids' former regions were lost to new independent nations.
 
I'm playing with the latest beta and the muslims are still blobby and scary even with decadence in the teens. Byzantium is down to greece, 3 crusades for jerusalem have failed. This is before 1000ad.
 
They don't have a high enough penalty for religious differences.
All you have to do is complete a Hajj and you completely overwrite the modifier for being Sunni, Ibadi etc.
The Sunni/Shia/Ibadi split during the 600's is effectively multiple independent heresies from each others standpoint.

The Moral Authority of each branch of Islam should be affected by the prevalence of the other branches and their individual heresies, that is it should be weakened by the division.
That weakness should be represented as a penalty to levy quantity, levy moral & taxation.
A rulers personal decadence ... should incur the same penalties.

Too many start out as Feudal States on day 1, more of them should have a tribal structure.
More tribal holdings will mean more individual dynasties, which means more internal conflict.
 
Abbasids and Umayyads are both powerful and in good positions to expand in the new bookmark, too. If the Charlemagne doesn't unite Francia, the Umayyads can expand into Aquitaine pretty easily (though whether they can hold it against Crusades is another issue). Abbasids are just huge.
 
I've been looking for the simplest way to mod decadence to affect the vassal limit, but the precise effects of decadence seem to be hard-coded (can anyone better at this than me confirm/deny this?). I could just mod in some events that fire at certain decadence thresholds, but that's a pretty weak bandage solution.

Anyway, I was considering +1/-1 vassal limit for every 5% decadence above/below 25%. Muslims should be able to hold more vassals stably when decadence is low, and it also means that when decadence revolts occur, the realm will likely end up above the vassal-limit, causing the realm to fragment as everyone thinks they should, instead of the realm simply changing names.
 
Aaronomus said:
I've been looking for the simplest way to mod decadence to affect the vassal limit, but the precise effects of decadence seem to be hard-coded (can anyone better at this than me confirm/deny this?). I could just mod in some events that fire at certain decadence thresholds, but that's a pretty weak bandage solution.
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Try tiered modifiers. It's a real PITA, but you can do it. Have each modifier trigger between each threshold (I'd say 10% is more than enough, that's already 10 copies - you can be an ironman though and do all 100%). I have not tried to mod vassal limit, however. I do know you can make it hurt religious opinion, and if the penalty is strong enough, revolts can easily replace decadence revolts - without troops from space.
 
Comradebot said:
Anyways, my own frustration with watching the BGB sprawl across the southern half of the map aside, any anecdotal experiences with the Abassids/Umayyads/Muslims in general since the latest beta patch? If I keep twiddling my thumbs, any chance of that great ugly blob biting the dust on its own?
Click to expand...

I gave up on my Manichean game because of 0% Abbasid decadence two times. In both games, the Abbasids ended up calling a jihad and conquering Anatolia and the heartland of the Byz Empire by the early-to-mid 800s.
 
JaguarXJ6 said:
Not having played with Muslim characters in game, I don't know if these decadence numbers are broken or working as designed.

What I do know is that the ERE should not be reduced to 100 realm size in 100 years of game time and taken over by the green blob starting with the earliest Charlemagne start.
Click to expand...

Arab armies laid siege to Constantinople multiple times in the first 100 years of game time in real life. It's not crazy that they might have won.
 
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