I just thought of a way to keep the HRE from vassalizing the Pope.

Yeah, I mean it should be possible to set up an anti-Pope and even install him in Rome with some effort (the process should piss off your vassals and neighbors and result in a huge piety hit) but you shouldn't be allowed to make the Papacy your eternal servant/ATM.

This isn't a mistake, the pope is supposed to be able to become a vassal of the ERE for mending the schism.

zyphial said:

This isn't a mistake, the pope is supposed to be able to become a vassal of the ERE for mending the schism.

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Which he doesn't, after I mended the schism he stayed catholic, even when the entirity of catholicism was converted to the one true faith the pope was there: independent, landless, and a lone voice in an orthodox world.

He doesn't convert, that's correct... but, that's beside the point? Heads of religion are kings, and the HRE vassalizing the pope has been a (player) strategy for... heck since at least LoR maybe earlier. The only "problem" seems to be the AI HRE being a bit aggressive about it in the new start date - but I haven't even seen that happen.

Making them emperors would only break other systems. What surprises me most is that the AI doesn't auto release the pope. It certainly grants the pope c_rome, even if you (the player as a vassal) personally own it!

vandevere said:

I've been looking at the title tiers the Pope has, and I believe a mistake was made with the Tier of the Pope title itself. Anyone who knows Medieval history knows that-*THEORETICALLY*-the Pope outranked everyone. Now, as history buffs will also know, the devil is in the details, and that's why the Pope's power went up and down over the years. But the Papacy was actually at its strongest during the years covered by Vanilla CK2, 1066...

My idea is to switch the Papal title from King Level to emperor Level, and see what that does...

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Well in the 1066 start they could let Maltilda of Tuscany lead her troops as she did historically quite successfully. Historically she was a papal supporter and thrashed the emperor and his imperial armies so badly she threw them out of Italy and the emperor was forced to make her vice-queen of Italy just to keep some illusion of authority south of the alps.

Being able to vassalize the pope should definitely be a thing -- people have tried that many times. That's not the problem. The problem is that there are zero consequences for waging war on the pope, occupying Roma, and/or vassalizing the pope.

People -- especially Catholic rulers -- should hate you for it and go to war for it.