The pacific war as the USA

I've played a partial game with the USA (only on normal setting) that I have not continued yet (in 1942). My navy has done okay but I tend to build carrier fleets and use them together but under separate admirals. So you have one carrier with some heavy and light cruisers and destroyers (maybe it's a good idea to attach some submarines?) and not to exceed the "limit".

I put whatever battle ships I have an heavier ships together into their own fleet.

Carrier fleets should should just be CV's with CL escorts, like 3CV, 6CL, don't mix the gun ships in, they should be in separate SAG task forces. There's some excellent threads already in here on task force compositions. You design the task force to accomplish the specific goal or strategy usually.

What is your garrison build and what is attacking it, more details please.

As is said, don't put carriers and battleships in 1 unit together. The reason for that is the priority escorting ships (destroyers and light cruisers) assign to each unit to determine who they shield. Aircraft carriers have the highest rank, so the screens will hang back to defend them, while the battleships will try to close the distance on their own to engage the enemy. Carriers of course dont need to get close because they use aircraft to attack.

Make sure you have at least as many screens as capitals in any fleet. For example 6 carriers and 6 light cruisers is the minimum. It's a good idea to add 1 or 2 more, in case they get blown up, since thats what theyr there for.

Lastly: no garrison will ever hold an island on it's own indefinetly. Eventually, cut off from supplies and pummeled by fleets and marines, they will succumb. They are only there to delay the enemy and buy a fleet time to intercept the enemy. That said, I tend to build divisions of 2 garrison brigades, an artillery brigade and an AA brigade and slap 2 of these divisions on 1 island. This, coupled with coastal fortifications and local AA batteries can buy your fleet enough time to act. I also don't garrison every single strip of sand, only the important ones with ports or other important facilities.

The best fleet composition (for gunship fleets) is to be just a tad larger than your opponent.

You cannot just make a fleet, and assume it's "Best", and sail it around winning everything.



A) If you lose a naval fight, and it's because of a deathstack, then make your own, *slightly* larger deathstack, and re-engage them.

B) If you lose a naval fight to the stacking penalty... then you probably didn't lose a lot of ships in the fight (else the penalty would have declined and you would have been able to win, albeit with casualties), so split the fleet up and re-engage the targets.

Continue to then use these fleets in your new setup until either A or B happens again, and repeat.

Graphic said:

First thing: I've given up trying to figure out how to make a fleet.
Second thing: How should I employ carriers exactly? Should I include them in big fleets with battleships, or should I be using them from a long distance while a pure "gun" fleet engages?

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I usually crush the IJN in a couple of months with the following composition strategy:
I have three fleet concentrations in the Pacific (and one smaller fleet concentration with no CV in the Atlantic since most of the German and Italian fleet is usually destroyed by the RN by the time the USA joins in):
The fleet concentrations look a bit like this (remember you need at least as many screens (CL + DD in vanilla) as capitol ships in one fleet!):
1. 3x CV + 3x CL commanded by a four star commander with the highest skill available
2. 2xBB + 1xHC + 2x CL + 1x DD commanded by a one star
3. 3x HC + 3x DD commanded by a one star
4. 4x DD commanded by a one star
The amount of screens (CL and DD) added to different fleets is depending on availability. Important to realize is that CL have a better range then DD and you need to be able to respond quickly to any Japanese move anywhere in the Pacific. This is where range comes and the importance of adding CL to your most important ships (CV, BB, BC and HC in that order) as in the ones that can do and take the most damage! So my CTF’s (Carrier Task Force) always have CL and no DD. My second important ship is the BB, so they get as many CL as possible but usually I don’t have enough of them to fully cover my BB fleets. In those cases I pick my most modern DD and add them to those fleets.

I usually have a couple of BB and HC left over and create which makes it possible to create one extra BB and one extra HC fleet for the Pacific. I add one of each to a fleet concentration. So one concentration had two BB fleets and one concentration had two HC fleets. I add them to the fleet concentrations that I expect to face the brunt of the IJN. I also number my fleets with the numbers 1, 2 and 3 (so I know to which concentration they belong). So the three fleets have aprox the following amount of ships:
1. 28 ships
2. 28 ships
3. 22 ships
These numbers are important because the maximum amount a four star can command without a penalty is 32 ships. So there is room to add TP for invasions without getting a penalty since a corps of 4 divisions of 3 regiments can be transported by 4 TP.

Battle: Invade islands with you entire fleet concentration and the IJN will react or wait for the IJN to invade you and attack them will your closest fleet concentration. When you do attack them, make sure your fleets arrive more or less at the same time in the province where they are gonna attack. If you would deploy from let’s say Midway to defend Guam and click on the Guam sea province straight away, parts of your fleet will arrive a lot earlier and get hammered by the IJN!

Carriers can do without micromanagement but are far more effective with micromanagement. Each CV should have one CAG unit consisting of 2 CAG squadrons. Have two, so four squadrons, attack the enemy fleet manually and have one, 3 CV remember, carry out an air superiority mission over your CV. If you have support from land bases INT or FTR use em on air superiority mission to cover your fleet. Land bases aircraft will pretty much destroy enemy CAG units since they are a lot stronger!
Important with CAG’s is to have at least one skilled commander per CV and make him a two or three star because a one star gets a penalty when commanding 6 squadrons! The other CAG’s can have one stars because they wont be in command of any battle. Besides a one star gains experience faster. For my CAG’s I usually have one 3 or 4 skill lvl commander per CTF and the rest of my CAG’s have a level 2 or 1 as commander.

Happy hunting

Graphic said:

Last thing: what's the best kind of garrison to put on an island to resist an invasion? I'm not sure if the stacking penalties are the same when it comes to amphibious assaults. I suspect not, because the last time I had only 4 divisions on an island they got torn apart.

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The AI generally will not invade a port when defended by two units. Though this works in Europe it’s impossible for both Japan and the USA to defend every island with 2 units since they have less MP than Germany. The best defense of course would be 3xINF but its an expensive solution and still doesn’t guarantee they can actually hold the island in question.
With the USA I always use 3xGAR. They can defend for some time and they usually buy me enough time to get my fleet in to destroy the invading forces before they are destroyed. Coastal fortifications always help in the time you get to respond.As Japan I start off with 3xGAR but switch to 3xMIL before I start the fast expansion of my empire in the Pacific. The good thing about MIL is that they take very little time and IC to build but the bad thing is that 3xMIL is pretty useless when it comes to defense. So I deploy 3xMIL on islands I don’t expect to be attacked by the Allies: Basically the inner ring while the outer ring is defended by 3xGAR.

Oh I almost forgot: Deploy your fleet concentrations in such a way that they can support each other. Because sometimes you will encounter a IJN death fleet and you need two fleet concentrations to take them on. IJN death fleets usally have a lot of DD btw and not that many BB or CV.

Oof said:

Oh I almost forgot: Deploy your fleet concentrations in such a way that they can support each other. Because sometimes you will encounter a IJN death fleet and you need two fleet concentrations to take them on. IJN death fleets usally have a lot of DD btw and not that many BB or CV.

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I find the IJN tends to have very few screens and a shit ton of capitol ships. This makes them very vulnerable to submarine warfare, naval bombing and Carrier groups. As the US I typically pack up my BBs and send them to the Mediterranean to squish the Italians.

The IJN are behind on BC and tend to not research it. A few BC groups can cause a lot of havoc against the 15 HCs that the Japs have at the beginning of the game.

Majsharan said:

I find the IJN tends to have very few screens and a shit ton of capitol ships.

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The few times I came across such a fleet and tagged as JAP to see what was going, it were mostly DD. They are still very effective though because a couple of BB and BC with lots of DD in a doomsday stack are still very lethal to any fleet under the stacking limit.

Majsharan said:

As the US I typically pack up my BBs and send them to the Mediterranean to squish the Italians.

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IMO that’s only an option when the USA DOW’s Italy a few months after England and Italy go to war. Otherwise most of the Italian fleet is gone because the Brits haven taken care of that. So that’s why I usually deploy 3 of my oldest BB with some HC and DD in Europe. Aprox 16 ships in total. And why not? They can cover invasions, take of the few ships the Axis still got left, while the major and most modern part of my fleet deals with the real naval threat: Japan.
Another reason to make that choice, is that for CV to be really effective and lethal, you need to have 1943 techs researched (aircraft, air theory (NAV) and naval theory). Till that time, having separate fleets with BB will help to quickly destroy the IJN.

Majsharan said:

The IJN are behind on BC and tend to not research it. A few BC groups can cause a lot of havoc against the 15 HCs that the Japs have at the beginning of the game.

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Researching aint enough. For the upgrades to be effective, you also need to build new BC. To be honest I never research BC techs, except AA, because the difference in build time with a BB is 1-3 months at the most. Might as well build a BB in that case, because they are a lot tougher. But I don’t do that either, I just go for CV.

Make sure your air doctrines are up to date for your cags I have neglected those before and lost all my Cags and then you lose your Cv's. I never do tech updates for CV's as the USA, just build with the tech you have.

Island Defense ideas:

GAR is better than INF, as long as techs are equal. They use far less officers, slightly less MP, and have all of the defensiveness, and most of the SA. And their inability to retreat due to speed is of little matter when there is no where to run.

AC can make for an interesting defensive unit; if your opponent is using MAR as his primary landing force, then the mediocre armor of an AC will actually give your own units the Hard on Soft bonus, and they are FAR cheaper than tanks. The AC's fuel use won't matter, since they aren't moving; once deployed, they will "request" some fuel to start, but then the Fuel need will drop to 0. Obviously, this won't work vs SM and his preferred landing unit ;p

MILswarming an island can buy you time, due to how ludicrously cheap MIL is, with almost as much SA and defensiveness as a GAR. IT makes for a good "frontline" island unit; your farther-back islands can just have a 2xGAR on them, while your Midways and your Wakes have like 4 divisions of 3xMIL. As you conquer islands, move your "MILSWARM" defense forward.

porkmeister26 said:

Make sure your air doctrines are up to date for your cags I have neglected those before and lost all my Cags and then you lose your Cv's.

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And that’s FTR (ground crew and pilot training), CAS (ground crew and pilot training) and NAV. Both the CAS and FTR tech theories add extra org and mor to CAG’s!

porkmeister26 said:

I never do tech updates for CV's as the USA, just build with the tech you have.

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At the start of the scenario you don’t have the IC to build CV straight away, but you do have enough LS to research one or two levels before you start building. Why not? One thing you definitely need to upgrade in vanilla, if possible with all ship types, is AA. Ship AA makes a huge difference and really has an impact. I recommend to research the 1940 AA levels.

My take on the USA is pretty straight forward.

1.) IC-whore until sometime in 1939 (with much still being built into '40-'41). Begin building a CV and a BB to warm practicals up. Add in CA/CL/DD/SS as you find time.
2.) My starting CTFs are usually 3 CV/1 CA/6 CL. The CA is in there to help raise overall speed, plus, sometimes they get a shot in on slower fleets.
2a.) I never put the Ranger in the Pacific. I go Ranger/CA/2 CL as a force and base out of Iceland then Scapa Flow (if needed, otherwise Gibralter/Malta).
3.) I'll build at least on modern BB unit early, with 2-3 modern BBs/4-6 modern DDs.
4.) For historical flavor, I base most of the old BB/CA/CLs/DDs as one fleet at Pearl, even though there is never a sneak attack there. Once at war, I send some to the Atlantic, and use the others as either damage-soakers or in my primary invasion fleet.
5.) The CAG advice above is solid in regards to who to put in charge.
6.) I usually base 2xNAV in Guam and Wake Island once war breaks out. Don't venture too far from the islands, as, unless Japan got seriously bogged down in China, they will be hit soon.
7.) I usually leave the Phillipines to fend for themselves, with just the base unit left there (but attach it to a Pacific Command, not the East Coast command). I'll add in a 3xTAC at Clarke Field.
8.) Other than the starting forces in the Pacific, I will only add the following to Guam, Wake, Midway, Johnston: 2xGAR/1xAA/1xArt (only sometimes on the Art).
9.) Attu, Christmas, Palmyra, etc, if I can find time in my queue, I'll add 1xGAR/1x AA.
10.) Even though you should be aligning to the Allies from Day One, add spies in the UK to Support Our Party.
11.) If, by December '41 Japan has not attacked you, embargo them in the Diplomacy menu. Often within hours you're at war. At most, I've seen it go a month or so before it happens. Do not do this earlier, if you're not ready to be at war.

With proper IC-whoring, it's easy to be well into the 600s for IC by the time you're at war. I've been in the 900s in HPP, keeping the New Deal going.

I should add that I only put those garrisons on the Pacific islands to give Japan a chance. It's more fun to invade and take back what's yours, than never letting them fall in the first place. Sure, you can build up as I mentioned in another thread, but what fun is it in winning before the war even starts?

If I was going for truly effective island defense, I might make 2xPAR/1xAC/1xAA or something similar. Not very historical, though. i have become a huge fan of AA brigades, though, in recent months.

KyrionMyrthar said:

I should add that I only put those garrisons on the Pacific islands to give Japan a chance. It's more fun to invade and take back what's yours, than never letting them fall in the first place. Sure, you can build up as I mentioned in another thread, but what fun is it in winning before the war even starts?

If I was going for truly effective island defense, I might make 2xPAR/1xAC/1xAA or something similar. Not very historical, though. i have become a huge fan of AA brigades, though, in recent months.

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?!?!

Oh, PARA, not PAR.

As in Paratroopers? Why? Only good thing about paratroopers, is their ability to be loaded onto a Transport Plane. Adding any support brigade makes them an expensive and weaker INF unit.

The optimal strategy vs AI si to build up Guam and another close island to level 10 ports, then prepare for war in Q4 1941. As soon as war breaks out you move about 20-30 divisions to Tokyo, escorted by 3-4BBs and 3-4 CVs (+ screens) and do a rapid landing to sieze it. Then you ignore the pacific islands. You'll probably lose some ships, maybe even big ones, but it's game over once you sieze Tokyo's supplies and fan out to take the Islands.

Super cheesy, but it works erry time - at least no normal

KyrionMyrthar said:

Oh, PARA, not PAR.

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I thought you had just mistyped GAR, but why on earth use PARA?

Para defend well and, if I recall, get a bonus defending when unsupplied? Something like that.