So were there still native counties or perhaps even native Kingdoms that belonged to the native British at the start of the Charlemagne DLC or was everything already swapped into the Anglo-Saxon soup mix?
British Isles in Charlemagne
- Thread starter Prince de Conti
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"Everything" was certainly not Anglo-Saxon but "native" is a bit more vague. The Picts are the obvious group but they still came from somewhere else, at some point.
In England there was still the British Kingdom of Dumnonia, which they currently have incorrectly labeled "Cornwall", but other than that it is all Anglo-Saxon or Pictish on the mainland.
Of course, Wales and Strathclyde are still Briton/Welsh at this point. It seems that a couple of counties currently part of England will also be Welsh at the new start date.
And what's with picts religion ? I assume they were not completly converted to catholicism. And even worth we english islands, like orcades or the island of man.
We don't know enough about the Picts but it's a pretty safe bet they were mostly converted to Celtic Christianity. There were very likely some pagans still around but Paradox aren't going to make a new religion to represent them.
Perhaps a couple of pagans on the Western Isles among the few people who even lived there before the Vikings came.
At this point Dumnonia = Cornwall (basically), and Kernow is just the Cornish (?) name for Cornwall. Wessex was an Anglo-Saxon kingdom that had no relation to Dumnonia other than the fact that they ended up covering roughly the same territory (though Wessex did end up extending further east).
My understanding is that Dumnonia is basically Devon.
There are native counties in Charlemagne - just as there are native counties in every year of the game's history. You will find them in the form of the Welsh and Bretons. There should be a few occupied Welsh provinces in the marches in England, I think.
There are native counties in Charlemagne - just as there are native counties in every year of the game's history. You will find them in the form of the Welsh and Bretons. There should be a few occupied Welsh provinces in the marches in England, I think.
Not at all. Dumnonia was a very ancient British Kingdom that was eventually entirely conquered and subsumed by Wessex. Around the time of The Old Gods, all of Dumnonia other than the Cornish peninsula had been lost, so all that was left was effectively rump Cornwall (or Kernow). In Charlemange, Dumnonia's heartland (Modern Devon) is still in tact, so they need to get around to changing the name of the Duchy/Petty Kingdom when it is in Breton or otherwise British hands.
The Kingdom of Strathclyde around and kicking in what's now northern England and southern Scotland, Dumnonia and not just Cornwall is alive but surviving mainly because the south Britons or as the Anglo-Saxons called all Britons, the welsh, so utterly crushed the Anglo-Saxons 722 at the Battle of Hehilit that wouldn't be until Egbert of Wessex's military campaigns between 813 and 822 that the Anglo-Saxons would again give battle and finish off Dummonia leaving only the rump state of Cornwall. Other than those two, the remaining Briton independent kingdoms are all in wales and then there was the kingdom of Brittany on the mainland that would latter become the duchy of Brittany after getting mauled by the Vikings.
Celtic Christianity was still kicking around that time, too. That could be included in the game, since Christianity was still split along some old lines. Eventually, Celtic Christianity and Arian Christianity folded under the might of the Roman Church, but it wasn't a done deal yet.
The trouble was that Celtic Christianity was more of a tradition conflict between the Latin and Celtic traditions but with the same head of the church unlike Arianism which was a heresy, near a dead and broken heresy at that given the last kingdom that followed it converted to catholic Christianity decades before the new start date or the orthodox who technically had the pope as the head of the church but conflicted with the west over what the pope's real authority was as head of the church.
Read a really good book "How Ireland saved civilization" in which it discusses the freedom and equality between sexes and peoples under Irish Celtic Catholicism.
The Celts still followed the bible, however women had much more rights, divorce and polygamy were around. It actually sounded quite tolerant for a religion, then the Pope started sending legates and telling them to stop that stuff.
The Celts still followed the bible, however women had much more rights, divorce and polygamy were around. It actually sounded quite tolerant for a religion, then the Pope started sending legates and telling them to stop that stuff.
Celtic Christianity couldn't quite be represented as a Heresy, but representing it as a seperate religion would be even worse. To represent them would probably require a new mechanic to be implemented...
I'd like to see Heresies (at least some of them) actually start out as traditions within the religion. The church was much less centralised in this time, and the pope had little-to-no authority in such parts of the world. Many heresies seen in the game started out simply as traditions or movements which had been originally either been tolerated, or ignored. Religious Traditions would most likely have blue icons, to contrast them from heresies.
Religious heads may simply ignore these religions (which are unable to be Holy Warred or Crusaded, but can still be converted, and also may have their own mechanics) if they're too distant, but they may also decide to send out their Court Chaplin (or any localised title thereof) to try and encourage these people to follow the orthodox traditions of the religion.
Most importantly, the religious head may instead declare these traditions to be heretical, particularly if they've reached a significant size, or control any of the religion's holy sites. This essentially turns them into a full-fledged heresy (with a red icon,) allowing Holy Wars, Crusades, and gives all rulers of the heretical faith a decision to convert to the parent religion.
I'd like to see Heresies (at least some of them) actually start out as traditions within the religion. The church was much less centralised in this time, and the pope had little-to-no authority in such parts of the world. Many heresies seen in the game started out simply as traditions or movements which had been originally either been tolerated, or ignored. Religious Traditions would most likely have blue icons, to contrast them from heresies.
Religious heads may simply ignore these religions (which are unable to be Holy Warred or Crusaded, but can still be converted, and also may have their own mechanics) if they're too distant, but they may also decide to send out their Court Chaplin (or any localised title thereof) to try and encourage these people to follow the orthodox traditions of the religion.
Most importantly, the religious head may instead declare these traditions to be heretical, particularly if they've reached a significant size, or control any of the religion's holy sites. This essentially turns them into a full-fledged heresy (with a red icon,) allowing Holy Wars, Crusades, and gives all rulers of the heretical faith a decision to convert to the parent religion.
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Yep... iirc the descriptor 'Welsh' comes from the Proto-Germanic for "Roman'. A couple former territories/peoples of the Roman Empire got given such names by their migrating conquerors... Wallachia in Romania, from the proto-Slavic for Roman "Wallach", or "Włochy" in modern-day Polish meaning Italy. So you could play as the native Britons and fight against the evil barbarian invasion since CK2 1.0
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