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Weltschmerz

Second Lieutenant
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Aug 25, 2010
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Hello forum,

I could use some advice on my Mexico game. Currently 1850 in the midst of the "2nd American invasion of Mexico." Basically, I lost the Texan War for Independence & then the U.S. Manifest Destiny decision fired and I have been in the throes of perpetual war ever since. Each time they take a core province, my prestige plummets, rinse, lather & repeat. Should I go all out and fight them at the expense of my fledgling economy? The U.S. has a very slight tech advantage & I have tried to play up my defensive positions but they simply outnumber me.

What should I do? Any tactical or strategic pointers? Part of me just wants to give them their damn cores, master the reigns of economic production, build up my military & patiently wait for the ACW to strike. In other words, I want war on my own terms. They declare the very first day the truce expires & it's getting somewhat tiresome. For future reference: is the diplomatic game such that high relations or an alliance with the U.S. precludes a DOW despite holding cores on my territory?

Any input appreciated.
 
You can't avoid it unless you become stronger than them, which is probably impossible at this point. If you want to continue the best thing I can think of is an alliance with the UK. I'd suggest restarting and never letting them enact the decision in the first place, by never letting them get Texas.
 
You can't avoid it unless you become stronger than them, which is probably impossible at this point. If you want to continue the best thing I can think of is an alliance with the UK. I'd suggest restarting and never letting them enact the decision in the first place, by never letting them get Texas.

This is probably the best option. That said, I have seen Mexico end up in the UK's sphere (or at least end up friendly) early on, which really puts a damper on the Manifest Destiny ambitions. Rarely stops them forever (since eventually the US gets stronger and the UK gets busy somewhere else), but a savvy player might be able to pump up UK relations and leverage that into a long-term advantage if they didn't want to deal with the whole Texas thingy off the bat.
 
quoting the wiki entry for Mexico
The gamey option

The first option involves deliberately losing battles to the Texans. If you pursue this option, seriously consider raising some 9 squads of infantry that will produce while you carry out the first parts of the strategy.

Now, the Texan AI in AHD is cautious and defensive minded. You will want to head in with 9k troops, preferably led by Santa Ana and his negative morale bonus, into Austin, accepting the crossing the river penalty. You will almost certainly lose. Take your other two armies in the south, march them north, switch them to be led by Santa Ana, and lead them each, *individually* to similar battles, losing again.

At some point, the Texans will actually chase your army into a territory you own and begin occupying it. Allow them to occupy it. If they go back on the defensive, repeat the process with your armies of irregulars. Keep any infantry you have separate and intact for later.

The entire point of this exercise is to get a negative war score with Texas and get them to add a war aim. Once they have added a war aim, the USA can't join the war.

At this point, your 9 fresh regiments should have hopefully produced and you should have a half decent general. Combine all your forces, march in, and eliminate the Texans with brute force. This entire process will be slow, mostly in the first phase of building up negative war score, and will take about a year or two. Don't forget to keep an eye on your colonization efforts if possible.

Once you have initially overwhelmed the Texan army, don't let up, chase them until eliminated, once they are gone, split your army to occupy all of Texas.
 
That is the most devious plan I have ever heard of!

I was going to say get into the UK sphere ASAP and stay there.
 
In HOD (might even be AHD), I've never had Texas add war goals, even at high warscore. If you want to try it regardless, simply disbanding all your irregulars will do the trick, no need to to attack them and lose precious soldier pops and rack up WE that way.

It's perfectly possible to beat Texas and USA in the first war. Disband irregulars, build arty (especially!) and inf and mobilize. Overwhelm and destroy Texan army and have US join. Their army is only slightly bigger than yours, but it will be divided. Lure one stack into the mountains, reinforce and kill. Repeat the process with the other. When their mobilized army arrives (20 or so brigades), do it again one more time, but it will be much easier as it is only infantry with no artillery. Siege their provinces, destroy their single brigades and take one or two states, don't release anything.

After the truce ends, repeat the process, especially during ACW, which CSA will win easily with your help. Eventually, USA will fall to a revolution and make itself much less interesting to immigrants (their main source of power long term).
 
In HOD, what seems to work is to disband all of your irregulars and replace them with infantry. You can let Texas siege territory while waiting. Then when all the infantry is created, mobilize and defeat Texas. The USA doesn't seem to join on Texas side if you do this. I have done this twice now and it seems to work all the time.
 
There is also a chance for Mexico to actually come under US sphere of influence, thereby making it impossible for the Americans to attack the Mexicans.

I've seen this happen once. US didn't intervene in the Mexican-Texan, and slowly raised their influence until by 1842 Mexico was in their influence. Mexico had easily colonized all those little states except that northwesternmost one. For around 10 years there was complete peace with a semi-weak USA (not having all those resources and population) and rising Mexico, and it looked like it would go on for the rest of the game.

But then came good ol' British Empire and removed Mexico from US sphere of influence, and then stopped right there without going cordial or friendly (I imagined trollface when I saw that). Two months later US declared war on Mexico and went on to take the entirety of modern-day US territories...before I as Japan was able to sphere Mexico and save them.
 
You could always accept defeat and just expand into Central America before the USA gobbles them up into their sphere of influence.
 
Thanks for the input.

But, I guess I did not frame my question properly. So, here it goes again: assuming I do not save scum or start over, and assuming the facts as illustrated in the initial post - is my situation a hopeless one? Namely, should I surrender and forfeit my cores and declare war at a better, more opportune time. Or conversely, fight now before the USA becomes fully developed? I guess what I am trying to say is this: generally speaking, can a slightly neutered Mexico compete with the USA in the grand scheme of things? And, if so, what is the best way of going about it.

The diplomatic advice is truly appreciated. Is there anything else I should know? Part of wanting to opt-out of my current war is to dedicate my time to domestic reform in order to out-compete the USA in the future, assuming that is a rational possibility.

Thanks again for the constructive pointers.
 
I'd surrender the land during war and focus elsewhere. If they're only declaring for a single state, give up the state without fighting before they add additional war goals.

Increase relations with the UK and get an alliance ASAP.
Keep researching for tech, literacy, more national focuses, pop growth, and military.
If you're getting any sort of immigration and have already maxed clergy, switch national focus to get additional immigrants.
When you're ready to (seriously) try to get your land back, switch all national focuses to soldiers and get all soldier percentages to ~5%.

While you're biding time, declare war for well-populated states in South/Central America, and possibly uncivs in Oceania if your navy is able to survive the voyage.
Bring all of your soldiers back from all around the world when you think war is imminent.
 
Thanks for the input.

But, I guess I did not frame my question properly. So, here it goes again: assuming I do not save scum or start over, and assuming the facts as illustrated in the initial post - is my situation a hopeless one? Namely, should I surrender and forfeit my cores and declare war at a better, more opportune time. Or conversely, fight now before the USA becomes fully developed? I guess what I am trying to say is this: generally speaking, can a slightly neutered Mexico compete with the USA in the grand scheme of things? And, if so, what is the best way of going about it.

The diplomatic advice is truly appreciated. Is there anything else I should know? Part of wanting to opt-out of my current war is to dedicate my time to domestic reform in order to out-compete the USA in the future, assuming that is a rational possibility.

Thanks again for the constructive pointers.

It really depends.

Go to the diplomacy tab and report how many brigades USA has at this point and compare it to yours. Hover your mouse over that number and you will see how many military techs they have. If they're ahead in both, there's little chance to win unless you get lucky with some awesome generals.

By this time, they should be ahead by a large margin in mobilizable brigades, so you're out of luck there also.

If the situation is as I presume it is, your best bet is to let them siege you totally as it will raise militancy of your population, allowing you to pass reforms (slightly gamey, I know). Use it to pass a couple of reforms before they enforce peace on you. After that, prioritize military techs and encourage soldiers via national focus for a time, wait for the ACW and then strike.
 
Yeah at the stage you have two options unless you want to start again.

Give up on your Northern lands and focus on Central America or retreat, rebuild and try to wipe out the US stacks in mountains. Not easy.
 
Thanks forum! You guys always come through.

Update: I peaced out of my war with the USA. Focusing on getting my literacy up so I can establish an industrial base in order to reach Great Power status. Maxed out my relations with the UK, but they no longer have cores on the USA so I am no where near the tool-tip threshold for an alliance. The USA has basically encircled me by extending its sphere into NA and SA - sort of problematic. Should I get my relations with the USA above 50 to preempt war justification CB? Definitely going to focus on immigration & political reform as a long-term goal. I'll keep everyone posted.
 
Considering that it's possible to win in 1836, I'd say winning in 1850 could be possible depending on their techs / numbers. Still in 1850 mass immigration shouldn't have started yet.
Local superiority, baiting them into defensive terrain to wipe their armies (standing and mobilized) and then asking for one or two states should help, I tend to take New York and Pennsylvania.

If you give them your cores, put relations higher to avoid manufacturing CB and go colonial, it's a great way to get soldiers and money and then enact revenge in the 70s.
 
Update: 1858 came around & the AHD events triggered and the Confederacy was born. I had a truce with the USA until roughly 1860. I quickly sought & obtained an alliance with the Confederate government. I decided to wait until the truce expired - big mistake - patiently watching to see how the tide of the American Civil War would shift, etc., looking at the diplomacy screen for relative troop levels/tech, and when the Confederacy begin to lose war score I broke the truce and declared war on the USA. After some critical gains, I lost a decisive battle supporting the Confederacy and my hubris fell completely apart. At present moment, the Confederacy is pretty much annihilated & despite Mexico having good war score in my discrete & separate offensive, the USA will not accept terms nor even a white peace - it is going straight for the jugular. Nonetheless, Victoria 2 HOD is still a great game. I always admired its ability to punish poor game-play or strategic mistakes by the player. That's what makes it so damn rewarding. I'm not going to save scum, I'll keep going to the end - it won't be perfect, I just have yet another hurdle to climb. Thanks for all the advice thus far.
 
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