Let's have some focus on characters and stories!

Could not have said it better myself. I would love more character building investment from the development team, it's been sorely neglected in lieu of more interesting conquest scenarios. Just adding more flavor and dynamics to intrigue/diplomacy, as well as personal history like the reliquary you suggest would add such a deeper and immersive quality to the game. Not only that but with the announcement of the customization tool and history ledger or whatever this could be the perfect opportunity to implement more family/relation intrigue and historical role playing features.

Couldn't agree more.

CKII is so charming because it's basically an RPG in addition to a grand strategy game, and every RPG is about character-building.
Characters should feel unique, regions should feel unique, religions should feel unique.

This has been requested since the 1.0 version of the game. So far, it seems like this will remain a dream, but I agree that more "Role-Playing" would be a welcome addition.

I’d like to see an improvement of the traits system so that playing different characters feels different. At the moment they just feel like collections of numbers. Maybe make the traits have qualitative effects too, e.g. Kind people can’t assassinate, Just people cannot imprison without cause, etc.

It might force players into adapting their playstyle on changing circumstances, rather than just following optimum patterns of decision-making each time.

I agree with all the ideas I see here.
Instead of chosing between good and bad traits, a good education/life system would be great. We could also have "quests", like, if your character is zealous: participate in a holy war, convert 15 people and a land, and the reward would be a crusader trait or something like that. Collecting all virtues and keeping them could lead to canonization post-mortem.
Conquest would not be different: it would be limited to the character's - not the player's - ambition.

I agree. Better systems for friends/rivals and new and better ambicions/plots with event chains along the lines of what was show on Charlemagne. In general, I think the relationship of carathers with their religion, dynasties, titles, vassals and themselves should be worked on and improved. More focus on dynamic story telling like wars, alliances, marriages, claims or rivals that are triggered and progress by events over the lives of the carather to mix things up.

+1

It would also be nice to introduce a "play as a courtier mode", where - through events? - you build your way up without owning land at the start. I know this is not easily doable and goes against the game mechanics, but I think it would be in the spirit of the game. Maybe in CK3?

I also agree.

Perhaps something like a dynamic story where the relationships between brothers and relationships between parent and child can be explored. Or maybe an expansion which can add depth to the plot system - for example, if someone were to plot the death of your kinsman he could go into hiding. I'm pretty sure if someone found out they were an assassination target they would not just sit there. Then again, you can remove the instant result buttons that are a hold-over from CK1. It would be a lot more immersive to force utilization of major rpg elements like the plot system. A quest for the ERE emperor/empress to save the secrets of Greek fire would be something that would never grow old. Or a demon-spawned child would be an interesting story-arc; maybe a bit fantastical for some but one resulting from traits possessed would be very interesting.

Paradox always takes a lot of criticism but rarely does acknowledgement accompany that criticism for things done. While the former is absolutely valid so is the latter deserved. These desired additions will require more from an individual's computer system - how many would accept major hits to the game's requirements to accomplish a more deep experience? Are you prepared to accept that some with older machines will be left out or do you want the fine line of balance to be walked so that those with older systems are not left by the way-side?

Another major issue will be just how much you force upon a player. Before achievements, multiplayer and ironman modes were introduced, events to force undesirable traits and results on a character were perfectly legit because anyone that did not like something could always use the console to change things. Now the issue has to be addressed in such a manner that these popular features are not too adversely affected by your efforts. Do you force friendship on a player due to traits or perhaps you force unavoidable conflict between characters with opposing traits? If you decide to do this instead of just influencing with malus indicators will people accept being forced down a path not of their choosing? How well will restricting the ability to declare war because of character traits given by a rng be received by the community?

These types of improvements are among the hardest to enact and they require a lot of time and effort to get right. This might mean they result in a greater monetary commitment as well. Is a $35 expansion dlc justified? Where would the line be drawn for the majority of people?

Before condemning the dynamic story-arc content of this up-coming dlc, let's hear the details! Stop assuming that it only involves two characters in the entire game's timeline or that it is limited to the 769 start only. With the dlc being a WiP we need to allow time for the specifics to be worked out. This content has been in development from the beginning, it is complex enough that it has been put off at least twice that I know of. Just like Cadet branches. These things are things that we all want. Devolpers who are passionate for their creation and gamers who are passionate for their game both.

Charlemagne is gonna lot of special character events for Charlemagne and Carloman, but I wonder if they plan to add less specific events for family relations at large. It would be fun to have some more generic events which model similar situations--the quarreling brothers, the mother showing favoritism, all that stuff.

I'd love to see some several events reworked to a more CK1 style, where there wasn't a 'best' option, with a 100% chance of giving you a good trait, vs. a bad option, with another 100% chance of giving you a bad trait. CK1, I think, did a wonderful job of presenting difficult choices in its events, as it always played on chance if you got the traits you were aiming for, and in that regard, it made the choices less about optimization and more about roleplaying.

That being said, even if the above is not 'fixed', I'd love to see more focus upon the roleplaying element within CK2. As many of the above have said, it's what makes CK2 such a fascinating and enthralling game.

Andrzej I said:

I'd love to see some several events reworked to a more CK1 style, where there wasn't a 'best' option, with a 100% chance of giving you a good trait, vs. a bad option, with another 100% chance of giving you a bad trait. CK1, I think, did a wonderful job of presenting difficult choices in its events, as it always played on chance if you got the traits you were aiming for, and in that regard, it made the choices less about optimization and more about roleplaying.

That being said, even if the above is not 'fixed', I'd love to see more focus upon the roleplaying element within CK2. As many of the above have said, it's what makes CK2 such a fascinating and enthralling game.

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While it is sorta boring how there is usually a clear good and bad choice in CK2, it does make serving as mentor for a friend's child in multiplayer fun, since you can intentionally choose all the bad choices

I never played CK1--how were the events different?

To pull a couple random examples:

• There's one event where you play chess with a local bishop. If you choose to cheat, instead of just gaining Deceitful (as is the CK2 way), you have a 30% chance to gain no trait, 40% chance to gain the trait Reckless, 20% chance to gain the trait Proud, and a 10% chance to gain the trait Deceitful.
• Another event, for child raising, has it where your child is asking for more toys, and if you choose to encourage the child to play outside, you'd have a 40% chance to gain the trait Suspicious, a 40% chance to gain the trait Stubborn, and a 20% chance to gain the trait Energetic.

I don't know, but to me, it just seemed... better. A more random assortment of traits would be gained, and with that, you'd get a more diverse succession of characters, rather than in CK2, where it is relatively easy to fall into a pattern of Kind, Just, Diligent rulers if you aren't deliberate in avoiding such.

Andrzej I said:

To pull a couple random examples:

• There's one event where you play chess with a local bishop. If you choose to cheat, instead of just gaining Deceitful (as is the CK2 way), you have a 30% chance to gain no trait, 40% chance to gain the trait Reckless, 20% chance to gain the trait Proud, and a 10% chance to gain the trait Deceitful.
• Another event, for child raising, has it where your child is asking for more toys, and if you choose to encourage the child to play outside, you'd have a 40% chance to gain the trait Suspicious, a 40% chance to gain the trait Stubborn, and a 20% chance to gain the trait Energetic.

I don't know, but to me, it just seemed... better. A more random assortment of traits would be gained, and with that, you'd get a more diverse succession of characters, rather than in CK2, where it is relatively easy to fall into a pattern of Kind, Just, Diligent rulers if you aren't deliberate in avoiding such.

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A lot of the events are already % chance to gain traits rather than just "gain this one trait".
Especially the child raising ones which are generally x% ward gains trait 1, y% gains trait 2, z% nothing. And not all the traits are good or bad either in a reasonable number of them, although some of the child raising choices tend towards good or bad options.

In my experience, it's more x% to gain trait, y% chance to lose opposite trait, when it comes to the child raising events. Either way, though, the events are not quite as dynamic as the CK1 system with a wider variety of possible trait gains or losses, and I recall at least several events where options are 'gain this one trait', such as the infamous hunting event that grants you Diligent.

gja102 said:

I’d like to see an improvement of the traits system so that playing different characters feels different. At the moment they just feel like collections of numbers. Maybe make the traits have qualitative effects too, e.g. Kind people can’t assassinate, Just people cannot imprison without cause, etc.

It might force players into adapting their playstyle on changing circumstances, rather than just following optimum patterns of decision-making each time.

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This is something I think should have been expanded on since the beginning. I
love idea of certain trait restrictions to make the gameplay more dynamic, also it would frustrate the education of heirs if their tutors instill virtues or vices you'll eventually have to play with. Sounds great.

Zolotaya said:

Or maybe an expansion which can add depth to the plot system - for example, if someone were to plot the death of your kinsman he could go into hiding. I'm pretty sure if someone found out they were an assassination target they would not just sit there.

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This is actually going to be added in C.

Zolotaya said:

Paradox always takes a lot of criticism but rarely does acknowledgement accompany that criticism for things done. While the former is absolutely valid so is the latter deserved. These desired additions will require more from an individual's computer system - how many would accept major hits to the game's requirements to accomplish a more deep experience? Are you prepared to accept that some with older machines will be left out or do you want the fine line of balance to be walked so that those with older systems are not left by the way-side?

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Not really. A lot of "story" events are player-only and so require less of your machine than a simple "prisoner complains about his accomodation" event (that fires all the time all over the map).

Yonni said:

This is something I think should have been expanded on since the beginning. I
love idea of certain trait restrictions to make the gameplay more dynamic, also it would frustrate the education of heirs if their tutors instill virtues or vices you'll eventually have to play with. Sounds great.

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The problem is: people don't like having their strategic options limited. Personally I'd prefer if having certain traits made you lose them if you perform certain actions. E.g. executing someone without a reason? You can do it if you're just, but there's a 50% chance of losing the trait.

Andrzej I said:

In my experience, it's more x% to gain trait, y% chance to lose opposite trait, when it comes to the child raising events. Either way, though, the events are not quite as dynamic as the CK1 system with a wider variety of possible trait gains or losses, and I recall at least several events where options are 'gain this one trait', such as the infamous hunting event that grants you Diligent.

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On the other hand: traits define your character's personality. That shouldn't really change often. Personally, I think that more events should have options that can be taken only if you have certain traits.

Oh, I wasn't saying that we should have an increase in trait gain/loss, but rather that it would be nice to diversify the results that the current events can give

This is what I kep hoping the next expansion will be. Then it was Rajas of India, and then I kept saying that this should be the NEXT expansion, and then it was Charlemagne. I'm sure the next expansion will add in China or add in dates even further back, or maybe add in Atlantis, or God Knows What, but almost certainly not the expansion we've all been clamoring for from day 1.

Obviously, I'm not going to stop playing the game or anything, which is probably why what I want doesn't matter.

Zolotaya said:

Paradox always takes a lot of criticism but rarely does acknowledgement accompany that criticism for things done. While the former is absolutely valid so is the latter deserved.

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Paradox has added some tags for those who love to and are skilled in modding the game. Maybe if those of you who'd like more depth would try adding that yourself by modding and request more moddability in the thread for that Paradox would help out a bit?