What is needed for the Byzantine Empire to disappear

thevmag said:

I've got a funnier situation in my game: The Caliphate takes all of Anatolia and Greece, conquering Constantinople and forcing the Eastern Roman Empire back into Rome.

Must it really remain the Eastern Roman Empire if they're back in Italy?

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Call them Byzantium. The West will still not recognize them as the legitimate successor of Rome, no matter where they live.

Maybe it would work if people with strong claims on a title could usurp/form that title as long as they had the required piety and prestige, and held its de jure capital.

Lord_P said:

But in CK2 the eventual political unity to reclaim the realm, the Empire of Nicaea, is represented by the Byzantine Empire.

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Which is 100% hindsight and historical railroad revisionism. The Empire of Nicaea stood strongest to reclaim the mantle of the Byzantine Empire, but if its ruler had been worse while Epirus had been luckier, then Epirus might well have been the one that ended up reclaiming the title.

What if you gave vassals a faction to dissolve a kingdom or empire that only becomes available if the liege controls less than 50% of the de jure territory? If the faction wins, the highest title is destroyed and all the vassals become independent unless they're also de jure vassals of the liege's next highest title.

They need to seriously work on this. In all my recent games, nations/empires (in general) are far too stable. There seems to be no strategies for breaking up huge Empires. They just become persistent blobs which grow out of control. It's making the game extremely static and dull. I seem to remember from my older play-throughs that things were a lot more dynamic, with the HRE (fe) regularly breaking apart into independent stats for long periods of time. It was a bit OT back then, but whatever changes they've made since has had a worse effect in the totally opposite direction.

As an example, in my current game, the HRE has become _huge_ (dejure+England+Italy+most of Spain, etc). In an attempt to cull them, I've waged 4 consecutive wars on them. I've won all 4 wars, totally decimating their armies and not a single declaration of independence from within the HRE. Not even the King of England has tried to break away at their moments of weakness. THE KING OF ENGLAND - FFS!

Dull, dull, dull. Get with thhe program Paradox - this is not a fun.

I wonder what's going on in some people's games in most of my games the HRE doesn't collapse or lose borders which is quite historical at most it expands to its real life Zenith territory though almost never holding Sicily and maybe it takes some territory in a crusade while Byzathine either stays at its present borders or collapses in most of my games. I haven't seen massive blobs out of anyone who's not the Muslims or Mongols since a patch or two before ROI.

Ashagar said:

I wonder what's going on in some people's games in most of my games the HRE doesn't collapse or lose borders which is quite historical at most it expands to its real life Zenith territory though almost never holding Sicily and maybe it takes some territory in a crusade while Byzathine either stays at its present borders or collapses in most of my games. I haven't seen massive blobs out of anyone who's not the Muslims or Mongols since a patch or two before ROI.

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GREY BLOB:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/729jiposasmcw17/grey_blob.jpg?dl=0

It may be something to do with me playing as a Republic, idk. OH! I just notice in the screenshot that there's another blob in the East...a Golden Blob of Hordism. I think they just converted to Christianity, so I guess they're permanent.

Losing the traditional empire capital could make your vassals dislike you by -30 or so. It wouldn't make complete sense realism-wise but it would cause empires that lose their core areas to be more unstable.

thevmag said:

I've got a funnier situation in my game: The Caliphate takes all of Anatolia and Greece, conquering Constantinople and forcing the Eastern Roman Empire back into Rome.

Must it really remain the Eastern Roman Empire if they're back in Italy?

Click to expand...

There actually isn't even an 'ERE' in-game. The ERE and WRE crowns were united at some point before the start date, we just call it the ERE because they do not de-facto control the WRE, even if they are their de-jure overlords.

thevmag said:

I've got a funnier situation in my game: The Caliphate takes all of Anatolia and Greece, conquering Constantinople and forcing the Eastern Roman Empire back into Rome.

Must it really remain the Eastern Roman Empire if they're back in Italy?

Click to expand...

Given the historical views the romans of Rome and the Italians in general would hate them for being Greeks and not true romans. They really didn't like the Byzathine very much and expelled every Doux they sent to Rome until the Byzathine emperor gave up and made the pope the Doux of Latium.

The gothic wars and later some of the Emperors treatment of the Byzathine era popes didn't help matters.

Would it help if the Byzantine Emperor in exile in Italy is a Frankish Karling?

Frankish by culture; Karling by birth; devout Catholic; Basilius of the Byzantines from his seat in Rome

If you lose 85% of your dejure lands to varius enemies, you are still you and none can claim otherwise, if you lose 85% of your dejure to a single enemy he should usurp and devoid you of your title, the fact that silly penalties and wierd mechanics force you not to hold multiple titles of your top tier (or even any tier) doesnt mean that this should be the default or desired game state.