What's the hardest Paradox game to get into/learn/be good at.

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Victoria 2 by far.

Victoria 2 I found easier than hoi3 and I didn't need to go search youtube videos to know what to do. For hoi3 there is a lot of gaming info you need to learn and as well you need a good knowledge of ww2 military and military in general that most people including me don't (didn't) have even if they have a bit.

Victoria 2 is more like EU iv in terms of scale and military construction is simple as well. The economics and political side is the only place it really goes into depth which is quite cool actually to be able to guide your nation economically. It's built around this and once you know the mechanics of how this works that's mostly the game. The politics ties into it as well.
 
Vic 2 is also rather easy to play. It is really peacefull and waring is not that important. The economic system is very complex and most of the time I did look at it. Would love some improvement to the economic system in Vic3 :p

Not at all. Victoria II is the game with the most hidden stuff I've ever seen. Just the fact that there are lists and articles devoted to the function of only one aspect of its economic side (production and factories) is already proof enough that Victoria II is a game that just doesn't let people to play it easily.

My friends who have picked the game often say "the game almost plays itself" or "I don't feel like I'm doing anything", because usually there's zero feedback of your actions. It's the old CK syndrome where you pick an option in an event, but can't see what has been the result (you know, 50% chance of X, 10% of Y, but you con't know which one won until you check the character out), but up to eleven. Vicky has the hardest, most cruel learning cliff I've ever seen, and only now I feel like I know what I'm doing, instead of just trusting the game to follow my lead and correct the mistakes I do inadvertedly.

The production and world market menu is so unfathomable that most people don't ever look it up. Vicky is a game that, if you want to play it (not play it well, just play it, instead of just allowing it to run and play itself), requires the attention and detail of an accountant and the patience of a prospector. And I don't mean it's not fun, it's just another kind of fun. In my case, I like Vicky because it's probably the only Paradox game that really, truly captures the essence and flavour of the era. Its slow pace and game-changing political systems (playins laissez-faire is radically different than playing communism) and its relative resistance to massification do show that Paradox made its tighter, most-flavoury game, and that they know it.

Still, Vicky remains, to me, a brutal game to learn. To master? Probably HoI or CK2. But Vicky is the hardest to learn.
 
Mastered Vicky 2, but couldn't master Vicky 1! No idea what happened there. HOI3 is another very strong contender - mastered that by playing my first game as South Africa to get used to everything
 
Mastered Vicky 2, but couldn't master Vicky 1! No idea what happened there. HOI3 is another very strong contender - mastered that by playing my first game as South Africa to get used to everything

Funny, I had the opposite. I could play and understand Vicky 1 no problem (after years of trying, granted xD), but Vicky 2 always felt less focused, more randomised and I felt like I had much less agency in 2 than in 1.

I remember being able to actively send population out from a state into another one when needed (enough pockets of unemployed population, the government is paying for transportation!), for instance. In 2, however, the circumstances of emigration are... a bit mysterious.
 
I also think HOI3 is a hard game, but if you actively try to learn it (tutorials etc..) you will sooner or later be better at it.
 
I'm witholding my vote until the perfect game comes out...

HOI military
Vicky econ and pop
CK leadership/dynasty
EU scope in time/history
Rome office management and loyalty

I'll vote that one as hardest.
 
HOI 3. I can actually win the game as a major country, but I'm not sure how the hell I'm doing it or why what I just did is working.

I am quite familiar with CK2. It's just easy after you pass the learning curve; and you have enough time to conquer at least half the map as an average player. Vicky 2 is ok I guess, I have the same issues of HOi3 but it isn't nearly as complicated. EU4 may be the easiest to grasp.
 
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its funny to see...


only new players on Paradox games (register date on the forums) thinks HoI3 it's a hard game....

Not really. I had played EU2 for a couple of years before registering. I still find HoI3 absolutely opaque - but then again, I dislike warfare and prefer peacetime, so I don't have the full drive to dive and learn.
 
Hardest to get into - Sengoku (followed by HOI3);
However this probably depends a lot on what periods of history you find interesting. It also is much harder to go back to a game which is basically an old version of a newer game you have played (Sengoku was hard because I'd been playing CK2 with DLC which is like a newer version of Sengoku)
Hardest to learn - Vicky2
I base this on how much is involved with Vicky's systems are. Vicky tech may be simpler than HOI tech, but its harder to work out which tech you want to get next. Vicky's economy is also super complex, and it constantly feels that there is more I could do to optimise it.
Hardest to master - Vicky2
Apart from Britain its almost impossible to get any of the other countries into the superpower range. To me the superpower range is where you could play on the hardest difficulty level and come out ahead in a war against almost everyone else at once. For Britain I can only do that due to your starting position, not skill.
 
Not at all. Victoria II is the game with the most hidden stuff I've ever seen. Just the fact that there are lists and articles devoted to the function of only one aspect of its economic side (production and factories) is already proof enough that Victoria II is a game that just doesn't let people to play it easily.

My friends who have picked the game often say "the game almost plays itself" or "I don't feel like I'm doing anything", because usually there's zero feedback of your actions. It's the old CK syndrome where you pick an option in an event, but can't see what has been the result (you know, 50% chance of X, 10% of Y, but you con't know which one won until you check the character out), but up to eleven. Vicky has the hardest, most cruel learning cliff I've ever seen, and only now I feel like I know what I'm doing, instead of just trusting the game to follow my lead and correct the mistakes I do inadvertedly.

The production and world market menu is so unfathomable that most people don't ever look it up. Vicky is a game that, if you want to play it (not play it well, just play it, instead of just allowing it to run and play itself), requires the attention and detail of an accountant and the patience of a prospector. And I don't mean it's not fun, it's just another kind of fun. In my case, I like Vicky because it's probably the only Paradox game that really, truly captures the essence and flavour of the era. Its slow pace and game-changing political systems (playins laissez-faire is radically different than playing communism) and its relative resistance to massification do show that Paradox made its tighter, most-flavoury game, and that they know it.

Still, Vicky remains, to me, a brutal game to learn. To master? Probably HoI or CK2. But Vicky is the hardest to learn.

110 % agree. Except I think that Victoria is the most difficult to master and not just to learn.
 
Victoria 2 is perhaps the hardest, but I only have vanilla.

It's got the colonization thing Europa Universalis has, but if you attack two peeps for your own benefit everyone gangs on you.
 
Victoria 2 is perhaps the hardest, but I only have vanilla.

It's got the colonization thing Europa Universalis has, but if you attack two peeps for your own benefit everyone gangs on you.
Colonization was heavily changed by Heart of Darkness, so it radically different in that version of the game which is also recommend due to the age of the other version.
 
This.

I've played almost 100h and have watched many let's plays/tutorials yet I still have little to no idea wtf I'm doing.
This explains it. Sitting down for 5-10 hours watching HOI3 vids makes you understand the game reasonably well (besides you can automate many processes), while Vicky 2 is just a monster.
 
Hoi 3 is more difficult than Vicky 2 IMHO. I bought them togheter and I simply can't get Hoi 3 mechanincs:
If I automate most of the processes i don't "feel" the game and if I set all manual the game became simply overwhelming.
Vicky 2 on the other hand, is the right combination between automation ( trade and a bit of industry) and human intervention.
However tutorials in both games suck.
 
its funny to see...


only new players on Paradox games (register date on the forums) thinks HoI3 it's a hard game....

I did think HoI3 was hard to get into, but maybe didn't give it enough of a chance at the time. Planning to dive into HoI4 for sure.
 
For me, coming from HOI/EU/Victoria, the hardest to 'get' was Crusader kings, because you're NOT playing as 'The Country', you're playing as 'The Dynasty'. It's a subtle paradigm change but it's taken me a long time to get used to - and I'm not really sure I have!