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The "Holy Roman Empire"

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According to the HRE Charlemagne was the founder and was treated as such. Nowadays some insist that the HRE was founded by Otto the Great.
 
Taran14 said:
Wasn't Charlemagne the founder of the Holy Roman Empire?
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Otto the Great was (962):

220px-Otto_the_Great.jpg
 
People are getting hung up on Charlemagne being emperor of the "Holy Roman Empire". We as CK2 players should know the people and the titles are what's important here, not the countries.

Charlemagne was crowned Emperor of the Romans by the Pope. Otto and the subsequent kings of Germany were crowned Emperor of the Romans by the Pope. The "Holy" attachment was a later development. Besides, the whole reason for calling Germany and its conquests the land of the "Emperor of the Romans" was specifically to harken back to the glory days of Charlemagne.
 
Oriflamme said:
People are getting hung up on Charlemagne being emperor of the "Holy Roman Empire". We as CK2 players should know the people and the titles are what's important here, not the countries.

Charlemagne was crowned Emperor of the Romans by the Pope. Otto and the subsequent kings of Germany were crowned Emperor of the Romans by the Pope. The "Holy" attachment was a later development. Besides, the whole reason for calling Germany and its conquests the land of the "Emperor of the Romans" was specifically to harken back to the glory days of Charlemagne.
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Yeah, maybe I'm just nitpicking about semantics...

But in literature I read and learned from "HRE" refers precisely for the land forged by Otto the Great. That is also on the Wikipedia article (counting from 962).
 
Charlemagne was as much the founder as Otto the Great, since though Otto was from the Saxon dynasty, he was king of East Francia. With his imperial coronation Otto the Great also assumed the imperial mantle of Charlemagne. (He was following in his footsteps.)
 
According to stream, HRE is made after decision. You have to have 220 provinces, 2000 prestige, be the King of Italy, have 100 relations with pope, and Empires of Italy, Hispania, Germania, Francia and B-something (I couldn't see what) should not exist.
 
Allastair said:
According to stream, HRE is made after decision. You have to have 220 provinces, 2000 prestige, be the King of Italy, have 100 relations with pope, and Empires of Italy, Hispania, Germania, Francia and B-something (I couldn't see what) should not exist.
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I guess it makes sense then...
 
Ruwaard said:
Charlemagne was as much the founder as Otto the Great, since though Otto was from the Saxon dynasty, he was king of East Francia. With his imperial coronation Otto the Great also assumed the imperial mantle of Charlemagne. (He was following in his footsteps.)
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That would be right he didn't create the imperial title, the pope did for Charlemagne and after the death of Charles the fat the last emperor to rule a united empire the imperial title passed to the kings of Italy, 6 of them were crowned as Emperor of the Romans by the Pope before Otto came along. A major reason Otto was crowned emperor of the romans was because he became king of Italy by marrying the currently widowed queen of Italy and preceded eliminated all the rival claimants for the Italian throne ending the fight for the imperial title.
 
Slavicist said:
I guess it makes sense then...
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You have to have the Empire of Hispania? That does not make any sense, Charlemagne controlled almost none of Iberia.
 
Hackworthy said:
You have to have the Empire of Hispania? That does not make any sense, Charlemagne controlled almost none of Iberia.
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The Empire shouldn't exist, and I think it'd be because if there is an Empire of Hispania ruled via Visigoths...well then there's your "new" Western Roman Empire for Christianity.
 
Allastair said:
According to stream, HRE is made after decision. You have to have 220 provinces, 2000 prestige, be the King of Italy, have 100 relations with pope, and Empires of Italy, Hispania, Germania, Francia and B-something (I couldn't see what) should not exist.
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It might be Britannia, I think.
 
Thure said:
No. The HRE is NOT formable if one of this realms already exist.
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It's the whole Translatio Imperii thing in that only one Crown can fill the vacancy of the Western Throne.
 
Allastair said:
According to stream, HRE is made after decision. You have to have 220 provinces, 2000 prestige, be the King of Italy, have 100 relations with pope, and Empires of Italy, Hispania, Germania, Francia and B-something (I couldn't see what) should not exist.
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It was not the pope you can be any religion that has 100 relations with there religious head and you create it if you are either the King of Italy or Emperor of Italy... so by all accounts you can technically create the HRE if you are jewish as long as you have a head of your religion.
 
Allastair said:
According to stream, HRE is made after decision. You have to have 220 provinces, 2000 prestige, be the King of Italy, have 100 relations with pope, and Empires of Italy, Hispania, Germania, Francia and B-something (I couldn't see what) should not exist.
Click to expand...

Sounds like many playthroughs will never see the HRE.
 
Tempestra said:
Sounds like many playthroughs will never see the HRE.
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Why not? It's not that different from the current decision to form the HRE save for the relationship with the Pope thing.
 
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