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LordSamedi

Second Lieutenant
58 Badges
Oct 27, 2013
113
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I remember a while ago people were complaining against uber-stable Muslim blobs and the Muslims were supposedly nerfed but it doesn't seem to have taken in my game. I've found that almost always, the Muslims conquer and hold an obscene amount of territory while the Christians just fight amongst each other completely oblivious to the rising threat. Even the Christians in Iberia would prefer to deplete each other's levies in pointless claim wars than deal with the Umayyads.

Current game is somewhere in the year 930 or so. Already I'm worried that I'll see a Muslim Hispania. Last time I attempted this my title management made my Reformed Norse Scandinavia incredibly weak and it fractured into several hideously bordered kingdoms because I didn't know how to handle titles acquired in GHWs. So I started over, now I've formed Scandinavia again and my plan is to reform the Norse faith and then jump into a new kingdom. I won't be blobbing like I did last time, I'll just stay within de jure Scandinavia (Of course, I have no control over the AI).

I took a look to the south to find that the Abbasids are already blobbed out massively, and beating the snot out of the Byzantine Empire like usual (seriously, I don't get all the complaints about Byzantium being OP, they get the shit kicked out of them by the Muslims in every single one of my games.) They're already starting to pick up steam and soon I'll be seeing Holy Wars, Jihads and Muslim Invasions everywhere. Nothing can stop them! Right now I think Cumania is my best hope, I'll try to jump to them and either reform Tengri or adopt a religion other than Islam (Judaism or Zoroastianism if possible).

TL;DR: What's the deal with Muslims? The Muslim realms in most of my recent games have been unstoppable. The rulers are always absolutely adored by their vassals, which means they have massive levies. They're constantly blobbing which keeps decadence down and they always get their MA up to 100% and start Jihading all over the map. I'm sick of seeing Muslim Arabia and Hispania painting the map puke yellow and green. It's way too early for the Mongols to come save me too.
 
I remember a while ago people were complaining against uber-stable Muslim blobs and the Muslims were supposedly nerfed but it doesn't seem to have taken in my game. I've found that almost always, the Muslims conquer and hold an obscene amount of territory while the Christians just fight amongst each other completely oblivious to the rising threat. Even the Christians in Iberia would prefer to deplete each other's levies in pointless claim wars than deal with the Umayyads.

Current game is somewhere in the year 930 or so. Already I'm worried that I'll see a Muslim Hispania. Last time I attempted this my title management made my Reformed Norse Scandinavia incredibly weak and it fractured into several hideously bordered kingdoms because I didn't know how to handle titles acquired in GHWs. So I started over, now I've formed Scandinavia again and my plan is to reform the Norse faith and then jump into a new kingdom. I won't be blobbing like I did last time, I'll just stay within de jure Scandinavia (Of course, I have no control over the AI).

I took a look to the south to find that the Abbasids are already blobbed out massively, and beating the snot out of the Byzantine Empire like usual (seriously, I don't get all the complaints about Byzantium being OP, they get the shit kicked out of them by the Muslims in every single one of my games.) They're already starting to pick up steam and soon I'll be seeing Holy Wars, Jihads and Muslim Invasions everywhere. Nothing can stop them! Right now I think Cumania is my best hope, I'll try to jump to them and either reform Tengri or adopt a religion other than Islam (Judaism or Zoroastianism if possible).

TL;DR: What's the deal with Muslims? The Muslim realms in most of my recent games have been unstoppable. The rulers are always absolutely adored by their vassals, which means they have massive levies. They're constantly blobbing which keeps decadence down and they always get their MA up to 100% and start Jihading all over the map. I'm sick of seeing Muslim Arabia and Hispania painting the map puke yellow and green. It's way too early for the Mongols to come save me too.


Have you considered stopping terrorizing the christian world with your Norsemen so they can repel the Muslim invaders better?
 
Have you considered stopping terrorizing the christian world with your Norsemen so they can repel the Muslim invaders better?
Yes, that's why I plan on leaving them alone. I used to dislike the Christians but the Muslim blobs have made me warm up to them. At most I'll help Jorvik form Norse Brittania but I won't be touching Germany, France or any of continental Europe. Last time I did, and it was a mistake.
 
Maybe my game is broken, but in 500+ hours played I have yet to see Byzantium break, and it angers me so much.

Realms in general in the game are much too stable, which means big blobs eat up the small ones with relative ease.
 
Maybe my game is broken, but in 500+ hours played I have yet to see Byzantium break, and it angers me so much.

Realms in general in the game are much too stable, which means big blobs eat up the small ones with relative ease.
Which start date do you mostly use? In TOG the Greeks almost always lose most of their core territory within a century after Jihads are activated. The annoying thing is that they're not destroyed. They linger in isolated provinces all over the region because no one puts them out of their misery.
 
Which start date do you mostly use? In TOG the Greeks almost always lose most of their core territory within a century after Jihads are activated. The annoying thing is that they're not destroyed. They linger in isolated provinces all over the region because no one puts them out of their misery.

Almost exclusively 1066. They seem to swat the Seljuk invasion away with no trouble, then drive into Armenia, Georgia and Crimea, while also taking Venice and their Balkan de jure land.

I can't stand the border mess that the 867 start invariably turns into.
 
It does depend, decadence invasions can either be utter nightmares, but like adventurer invasions if they happen to go into one slot and have just enough advantages and luck even those aren't bad. It depends on your goals The Abbassids are a damn nightmare, but if the Seljuk invasions could screw over the Abbasid big time, or the Mongol Invasions. Don't hesitate to stir the pot by assassinating their rulers if need be.
 
In my games, I don't get the feeling Muslim relams are uber-stable. They might be, but only for the first hundred years; then they get completely obliterated by decadence.

And Asturias reconquering Iberia is becoming pretty common too.
 
Almost exclusively 1066. They seem to swat the Seljuk invasion away with no trouble, then drive into Armenia, Georgia and Crimea, while also taking Venice and their Balkan de jure land.

I can't stand the border mess that the 867 start invariably turns into.
Unfortunately those are the options: super stable blobs for the entire game in 1066 or crazy patchwork borders starting at 867. I do like 867 for that reason, though; no HRE, Byzantium often falls and powerful muslims.

Alternatively try using the Alexiad start, I like it. The Byzantines are already pushed out of Asia minor in it. Only problem is that the Pope always calls a crusade for Greece, meaning there will almost always be a catholic state in asia minor in this start.
 
The AI is doing this without influence from me: http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/41976983822235657/6525039B97E3BA49DF8373F96449B59FBDD1849F/ so yes christian AI will some times take land from Muslims. It just doesn't do it every time for some reason.
That's amazing. Christian Spain can't seem to get their shit together in my games. What happens is they fight a bunch of claim wars for all the tiny kingdoms in Iberia and when one guy manages to get like three he sits there until Gavelkind tears his realm apart and the whole process starts over again. Meanwhile, the Muslims form Muslim fucking Hispania again. I'd really like to try and make Christian Hispania after I reform Norse but the sheer abundance of kingdoms makes it quite difficult.
 
It tends to be about 50/50 as to whether they win or lose in Spain for me. Which is as it should be. In the East, they tend to be fairly stable, or there will be a Byzantine victory. I don't see many vast all-powerful Islamic empires any more.

Decadence works well with the AI too, with it being controlled by some and utterly out of control by others. Islam is one of the few areas I'm finding to be well-balanced these days, as opposed to, say, the Karlings.

The new start date will be hell for anyone not Islamic, though; the Abbasids at the height of their powers, the biggest blob on the map...
 
Doable. But hard. And when you win, you want to stop playing the game for a while. I once survived two simultaneous jihads plus Seljuk holy war after winning the first crusade as a republic — had 1000 levies or something. Some 120 hours later I managed to have some five baronies in Cumania, so guess who got DoWed by the Ilkhanate. Coupla years later (like 10) came the Golden Horde. Or was it the other way round. Each with like 100K troops. And then they got reinforcements. Not like Byzzies were always nice to me, either, in the meantime, or that the Zirids and their successors (the whole bunch of them African emirs collectively) didn't DoW somebody in Italy the moment truce ran out or that the Almohads sat silently in their corner. I wasn't even able to remember to keep tabs on so many places at once, and I had to go back and forth on ships all over the med (and sometimes beyond) because I didn't have the men to do it otherwise.

I won, but I need a shrink. I think I got PTSD.
 
I am curious to see how big of a pain I can be to the Muslim nations by constantly raiding along the Persian Gulf and Red Sea as a Hindu. Perhaps I can even establish some permanent colonies in East Africa and aim for Egypt. Going to try it in my next play through.