Hearts of Iron IV - Developer Diary 8 - Experience and Variants

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I really want to know exactly what we can change for different equipment types. How can we modify planes and tanks and to what extent? Honestly this feels like a more efficient way to execute the customizable research of HOI 3 which despite its tedium was one of my favourite parts of the game, being able to decide how my tanks are designed, how reliable, well armed, armoured, and mobile.
 
I've been wondering since infantry will be equipped with kits will we get variants of the kits just like with the other buildable equipment?

This might be a good way to simulate some armies formations containing more mg's/mortars etc.. I'm not sure what the options for an infantry kit might be but maybe Mg count, Mortar count. Maybe med equipment count for a lower attrition rate. Maybe a stat to lower attrition in differing weather enviroments to simulate winter/jungle gear.
This would also allow a differing from say a Polish tech 1 infantry unit and a German Tech 1 infantry unit. Accounting for the greater use of MG's and mortars in the later.
 
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I've been wondering since infantry will be equipped with kits will we get variants of the kits just like with the other buildable equipment?

This might be a good way to simulate some armies formations containing more mg's/mortars etc.. I'm not sure what the options for an infantry kit might be but maybe Mg count, Mortar count. Maybe med equipment count for a lower attrition rate. Maybe a stat to lower attrition in differing weather enviroments to simulate winter/jungle gear.
This would also allow a differing from say a Polish tech 1 infantry unit and a German Tech 1 infantry unit. Accounting for the greater use of MG's and mortars in the later.

That's an interesting thought. I hadn't thought about applying the equipment variant interface to infantry kits. Good idea!
 
I started to brainstorm with possible mod designs. But I have an important question is it possible to mod the max level of the possible upgrades? If not, could it be added, so that modders can chose the max level. Is it also possible to add more or less upgrades or is in the example with the carrier the 4 upgrades hard coded?


But the system that seems to be included in HoI4 is perfect to model tanks. I love it.
 
I started to brainstorm with possible mod designs. But I have an important question is it possible to mod the max level of the possible upgrades? If not, could it be added, so that modders can chose the max level. Is it also possible to add more or less upgrades or is in the example with the carrier the 4 upgrades hard coded?


But the system that seems to be included in HoI4 is perfect to model tanks. I love it.

In a youtube vid they've said the equivalent of "you can mod crazy stuff, like a carrier that's a battleship submarine".

I'll try to find the link and edit it to here, but it's like an hour of vids I have to sit through.


Edit: http://youtu.be/15Fxaax41t4?t=10m49s
 
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In a youtube vid they've said the equivalent of "you can mod crazy stuff, like a carrier that's a battleship submarine".

I'll try to find the link and edit it to here, but it's like an hour of vids I have to sit through.

I only want to mod historical variants.:)
That's why it's imo important that you can add a max level to the upgrades. In example the Base PzKpfw III model has the 3.7cm KwK36 L/46.5, but than there should be 3 possible level upgrades for the tank gun, thanks to land experience.
Level 1: 5cm KwK38 L/42
Level 2: 5cm KwK39 L/60
Level 3: 7.5cm KwK37 L/24 (Heat ammo)

But after the 7.5cm KwK37 L/24 you shouldn't be able to add an extra level to the tank gun upgrade. Same for Armor:

Level 1: 30 + 30mm
Level 2: 50mm
Level 3: 50+20mm

So if you spend enough xp points you can get the best possible PzKpfw III variant the PzKpfw III Ausf N if you keep spending xp points.
 
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I only want to mod historical variants.:)
That's why it's imo important that you can add a max level to the upgrades. In example the Base PzKpfw III model has the 3.7cm KwK36 L/46.5, but than there should be 3 possible level upgrades for the tank gun, thanks to land experience.
Level 1: 5cm KwK38 L/42
Level 2: 5cm KwK39 L/60
Level 3: 7.5cm KwK37 L/24 (Heat ammo)

But after the 7.5cm KwK37 L/24 you shouldn't be able to add an extra level to the tank gun upgrade. Same for Armor:

Level 1: 30 + 30mm
Level 2: 50mm
Level 3: 50+20mm

So if you spend enough xp points you can get the best possible PzKpfw III variant the PzKpfw III Ausf N if you keep spending xp points.

As everything from the unit designer is since the last time we've seen them, it doesn't seem like a certain armor equates to such and such thickness or a certain attack is tank gun x or y, but those seem to all be things that you could mod in, and while the flavor is there to represent those types of variants, (so far) it seems like you'll have to decide what it represents in your own mind and name them yourself. But other than specific gun types or armor not really being represented, you can already name the variants whatever you want and mod their stats however you are able to with XP. So modding doesn't seem to be required.. But as I've updated my last post, you can do a lot with modding if the base game doesn't suit your needs.
 
Modding is required. I know that it is moddable, I spend quite some time modding historical models for HoI3. The question for the devs is, if it is possible to add a max level cap to the upgrade level. So that you can't advance to x level.

Ie.

The PzkPfw III enable the tank_equipment_3 (let's assume Pz I and II are tank equipment 1 and 2) for equipment (those are the big techs) you have x number of subtechnologies (techs in the big tech), in the dev diary it's 4. Each subtechnologies representsa new unique equipment. Equipment are the old HoI3 models.
The models again can be upgraded to new unique models thanks to spending xp points. But as the models available through the main tech and subtechs are fixed. The fixed model can be upgraded to new models thanks to xp upgrades. Becoming again a new unique equipment/model. Now if I also want to have a fixed amount of upgrades for those models, I need to be able to add a max level to the experience based upgrades.

Is this doable, but I need a dev to answer this one.

Edit: As those upgrades can be compared with the HoI3 technologies, does the command max_level exists, if not can it be added.
 
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The thing is, a tank variant with better firepower does not always mean only bigger gun. It means any modifications to the tank to increase firepower on a divisional level - bigger gun, better optics, loading mechanism (improvements in IS-2), ergonomics, added/better radio, even more crew (T-34-85)...
 
The thing is, a tank variant with better firepower does not always mean only bigger gun. It means any modifications to the tank to increase firepower on a divisional level - bigger gun, better optics, loading mechanism (improvements in IS-2), ergonomics, added/better radio, even more crew (T-34-85)...

No, it can mean whatever the mod team wants. It is perfect possible that the things you mention are what the devs want to represent with the upgrades, but a mod can chose to narrow it more ie adding more possible upgrades and etc... it depends what direction the mod takes.

You can mod the stats that the experience based upgrade gives. So if I mod that the experience upgrade Tank gun means a hard_attack and ap_attack increase and limit it to 3 levels. It can perfectly represent the upgrades as in my example for the PzKpfw III.
  • Level 1: 5cm KwK38 L/42
  • Level 2: 5cm KwK39 L/60
  • Level 3: 7.5cm KwK37 L/24 (Heat ammo)

You can make it as abstract or detailed as you want.

Edit: I also asume that you can look at the model in more detail, where the upgrades have a name defined in a localisation file. So I don't see level 3, but for Germany 7.5cm KwK37 L/24.
 
Edit: I also asume that you can look at the model in more detail, where the upgrades have a name defined in a localisation file. So I don't see level 3, but for Germany 7.5cm KwK37 L/24.

I wouldn't assume this. Nothing they've shown so far would indicate that this is feature. It could be, but so far there's no evidence to think it will be.
 
Yea, he just wants to know if you can make it like HOI 3 with set upgrades or max levels per stat, which I don't believe we know.. I guess it should be possible? like you could just make a new tech tree and set the parameters so that you can't change it, they've hinted that there are max parameters as a current tech can't get much better than the next tech. But as I've said, we don't know this specific answer for sure.
 
We know that techs can lead to a new path. For vanilla HoI4 the PzKpfw II leads to PzKpfw II Ausf L 'Leopard' and PzKpfw III.
Code:
path = {leads_to_tech = advanced_light_tank} #leopard
path = {leads_to_tech = basic_medium_tank} #PzKpfw III

A path means a new base tech (big techs with tank model in it)

each path, opens a new base/big tech:

In those techs you can add the start year, research_cost, the folder, the position and etc.. thus more or less the same than HoI3.

The new thing is that each new tech can have sub technoligies attached.
Ie:

Code:
sub_technologies = {the_example_tech}

Thus

Code:
the_example_tech = {
	enable_equipments = {RPM_tank_1}
        research_cost = 180
        start_year = 1936
}

Now the experience based upgrades probably means that you can alter the RPM_tank_1 again with the stat increases gained by increasing the upgrade levels. Thus RPM_tank_1 (equipment) is overrided with the new stats or a new equipment model is created.

I am pretty certain that I am correct for the main tech and the sub techs. How the experience based upgrades are done, is still a mystery and there for I hope that you chose the max level for each possible upgrade.
Which probably is already done by the devs, as otherwise people could keep adding levels and making it better than a new base tech model.
The question is, is this hardcoded the max level or can it be modded.
 
Now the experience based upgrades probably means that you can alter the RPM_tank_1 again with the stat increases gained by increasing the upgrade levels. Thus RPM_tank_1 (equipment) is overrided with the new stats or a new equipment model is created.

I am pretty certain that I am correct for the main tech and the sub techs. How the experience based upgrades are done, is still a mystery and there for I hope that you chose the max level for each possible upgrade.
Which probably is already done by the devs, as otherwise people could keep adding levels and making it better than a new base tech model.
The question is, is this hardcoded the max level or can it be modded.

We already know this. Old models can be upgraded so they are a tiny bit better than next tier base model. When you make an upgraded model you can choose the name of the model and it will function as a seperate type of equipment, hence not override the original base model. If you change production within the same model (hence between base and upgraded version or upgraded and upgraded) you lose 20 % efficiency.
That is the info we have been presented with as of now, ofcourse it can have changed.

Hence the max level should be moddable, im pretty sure that has been stated somewhere too.
 
We already know this. Old models can be upgraded so they are a tiny bit better than next tier base model. When you make an upgraded model you can choose the name of the model and it will function as a seperate type of equipment, hence not override the original base model. If you change production within the same model (hence between base and upgraded version or upgraded and upgraded) you lose 20 % efficiency.
That is the info we have been presented with as of now, ofcourse it can have changed.

Hence the max level should be moddable, im pretty sure that has been stated somewhere too.

Yes,
If you want to add only historical variants, you need to be able to limit the level for each experienced based upgrade and the amount of possible different upgraded variants for the base model. I didn't see this posted. That's why it would be interesting to know.
 
Yes,
If you want to add only historical variants, you need to be able to limit the level for each experienced based upgrade and the amount of possible different upgraded variants for the base model. I didn't see this posted. That's why it would be interesting to know.

This may be possible, I could just as likely see it as a global define that can't be set for each base model though.
 
I think this is a bit of an over reaction. Just like Folix says, I see them existing, but I dont think they'll be as restrictive as you think. I would think the cap simply exists to keep you from piling up an endless pile of points to dump into the game at an opportune time and receive a ridiculous benefit.

A possible solution could be to have accrued points expire after a certain amount of time. Said time block could possibly be slightly extended with certain doctrines/technologies/events (e.g. establishment of a doctrine center, joint deployment doctrine, who knows what...).

As XP basically represent innovation and its overcoming of bureaucratic inertia in order to effect change, it stands to reason that innovative spirit, if left unused/unrecognized, would eventually evaporate with the individuals/small groups who espoused the change as the grew disaffected and moved on to greener pastures for their ideas.
 
Question:
Can we define via modding, how much variant upgrade a unit can have for each model independently?

For example Bf-109 and Spitfire can get more upgrade steps (longer in service with lot good improvements) and a russian lower level I-16 Rata can get way less?
 
Hi! This week is going to be a pretty short diary because we are all super busy preparing for Gamescom and Paradox Fan Gathering in Cologne, but because we are physically addicted to stress hormones at this point we love our fans we decided to squeeze one in anyway.

A big problem when doing historical games is player hindsight. They will know what works and what doesn't and tech rush to those points. For Hearts of Iron IV we want players to have to play through the war to gain the experiences that historically may have been required to make the technological choices. To accomplish this we have split up the tech system in a theoretical part which is just your plain old research, which will unlock new equipment, like for example a P-51 Mustang that can then be produced etc. The other part relies on actual field experience in war and lets you tweak and modify any of your models to create new models (which you may name as well).

Let's talk about Ship Variants for a moment. Much like with the Division Designer, the key resource here is XP, although in this case we use Naval XP. Using your NXP you can make changes to any model of ship you can currently produce. Each ship can be upgraded in four areas, although this is not the same four areas for each ship type.

View attachment 113009

In the example here we can see a Carrier, and that it's four possible upgrades are:
Armor - Increases protection, primarily from air attacks, but reduces Speed and Deckspace.
Deckspace - Increases number of Aircraft carried.
Engine - Increases speed.
Reliability - This stat is a little more complicated than the others. The other 3 upgrades all reduce Reliability a little while this upgrade counters the effect. Could also be thought of as "systematology" or "ship-shapedness", it's basically how well put together the ship is. A low Reliability makes the ship more vulnerable to critical hits in combat.

You can choose to upgrade all four areas of the ship, of course, and get an all-round better ship at a high cost, or you can only upgrade a few stats and have a more specialized ship. Oh, and an interesting thing about ships is that you can change their variant during production, although this will impose increased production time depending on how far along in the build process they were when you changed them, so if you decide your battleship simply must have 18" guns or a better engine you don't need to build it from scratch - although you cannot make large refits to ships once they are built.

Most of the HOI4 team will be at the fan gathering so you can argue about panthers with Darkrenown, and say hi to me and Tomasz and Guraan. I will also be showing off HOI4 on a big screen during the fan gathering, so you'll get to be the first non-press people to see it in action.



Its a pity we couldnt give the hood that refit she was gonna get and upgrade some of our ships that are obscelete to do other roles
 
Its a pity we couldnt give the hood that refit she was gonna get and upgrade some of our ships that are obscelete to do other roles

Wonder what it's meant by Large Refits, how large does a refit have to be before it's to large like changing a BC into a CV large because putting 18" guns on a BB that started out with 14" would be rather large I would think.