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soluuloi

Second Lieutenant
Jul 28, 2014
120
69
I played CKII for a long time but I have never able to use combat tactic efficiently. I dont even understand how it works. Yes, I read wiki but still couldnt get it. For example, I am Shia and I want to use desert ambush tactic, then how many percentage of camel, infantry, v..v.. should I have in a stack?

And btw, should I really use camel? Even after a lot of upgrade for the camel cavs, they seems to so...underpowered. The light cav I have is just slightly weaker in skirmish and melee stage while superior in pursue stage compared to my camel cav. I dont even know if I should delete the camel cav troops and give my retinues only heavy infantry and archer.
 
I played CKII for a long time but I have never able to use combat tactic efficiently.
Eh, most players don't. Min/maxers like me obsess over optimal army composition, but generally the larger size army can usually win when both sides use mishmash armies (which is often the case against AI; of course, Mongols are always the exception), assuming other factors are fairly even (not too overwhelming terrain advantage, flank leaders aren't 20~30 Martial god-generals with awesome combat traits vs scrubs/nobody).

I dont even understand how it works. Yes, I read wiki but still couldnt get it. For example, I am Shia and I want to use desert ambush tactic, then how many percentage of camel, infantry, v..v.. should I have in a stack?
What do you mean? The wiki page spells out exactly what requirements you need:
1. The flank leader needs to Arabic culture. Doesn't matter if he's Shia or Sunni.
2. The battlefield needs to be Desert Terrain.
3. The combat phase is Melee Phase.
4. At least 10% of total army in that flank is Light Cav or Camel Cav.
5. At least 10% of total army in that flank is Light Infantry (so generally you need levies or mercenary to achieve this, not purely retinues).
Each of the three flanks roll different tactics, so if you want Desert Ambush to trigger in all three flanks, all three flank leaders must need the above requirements.

Optionally, if you meet the below requirements, your chance of triggering Desert Ambush (out of your total pool of available tactics during Melee Phase) multiplies by 150%:
1. Flank leader has 10+ Martial AND at least 20% of total army in that flank is Light Infantry AND at least 20% of total army in that flank is Light Cav or Camel Cav.
2. Flank leader has 10+ Martial AND at least 20% of total army in that flank is Light Infantry AND at least 20% of total army in that flank is Light Cav or Camel Cav AND the flank leader has Trickster trait
The two modifiers can be stacked, which will boost your chance to trigger Desert Ambush. If you can somehow avoid other Melee Tactics by purposely NOT meeting their minimum requirements, then you can further maximize your chance of triggering Desert Ambush.

And btw, should I really use camel? Even after a lot of upgrade for the camel cavs, they seems to so...underpowered. The light cav I have is just slightly weaker in skirmish and melee stage while superior in pursue stage compared to my camel cav. I dont even know if I should delete the camel cav troops and give my retinues only heavy infantry and archer.
Are you talking about retinue Camel Cavs or levy Camel Cavs? Retinue Camel Cavs are the standing army you recruit; levy Camel Cavs come from the cultural buildings you build in castle baronies. The former is great while the latter is not noteworthy.

Camel Cavs are one of the best retinues in the game, especially when you're facing strong opponents or far larger armies, but if you're just routing random scrubs when you already have far superior numerical advantage, then yes, a bunch of Light Cavalry can do the job better because you can rout more survivors and probably wipe an army in one shot. However, Pursue Phase is generally not as important as Skirmish Phase (the most important) or Melee Phase--if you can always defeat enemy armies when they're at full power, then what else is there to fear? You can easily chase down any smaller number of stragglers and survivors with broken morale, even if it takes three more battles to mop them all up. Sure, it can be a chore at times, but generals with Organizer traits should always be available in your army.
 
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Combat tactic? My tactic has always been that bigger army is better army. And that rivers and hills can be advantage or harm to you.

And if you are fighting against AI then lure him to attack you across the river or at the mountains. Put your reserves other side and when the battle starts then send your reserves to help your troops fighting defensively. When you have defeated your enemy then pursue his forces if you know the enemy doesn´t have any additional forces nearby.
 
And if you are fighting against AI then lure him to attack you across the river or at the mountains. Put your reserves other side and when the battle starts then send your reserves to help your troops fighting defensively. When you have defeated your enemy then pursue his forces if you know the enemy doesn´t have any additional forces nearby.

People complain about the tactical AI not being smart, but the AI pulls this stunt on me all the time. Now when fighting a country with a large levy, I don't separate my army into siege groups until I have fought a decisive battle. They'll sneak up on you.
 
Are you talking about retinue Camel Cavs or levy Camel Cavs? Retinue Camel Cavs are the standing army you recruit; levy Camel Cavs come from the cultural buildings you build in castle baronies. The former is great while the latter is not noteworthy.
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Thanks you for your reply. It's easier to understand when you make an example. So basically, if I want raid tactic for all of my flanks, all I need to have are 3 arab leaders with 12 or higher martial and at least 30% of my total stack is camel cav?

And may I ask one more question? How actually useful is the Elephants. Their stats are high but their number and cost are too much.

Combat tactic? My tactic has always been that bigger army is better army. And that rivers and hills can be advantage or harm to you.
Ugh. I used to think so until I face strong armies, like the Byzantine and the Mongol. There was a time when my 13k retinue stack full of housecarl was annihilated by a 7k rebel stack on normal terrain in England. I sent in another 12k levy stack and still lost. I only managed to destroy the rebel with a 30k levy stack.
 
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The thing you need to know is... Have an Altaic commander lead horse archers. Retreat and Ambush is super fricking good and will murder everything.
 
Ugh. I used to think so until I face strong armies, like the Byzantine and the Mongol. There was a time when my 13k retinue stack full of housecarl was annihilated by a 7k rebel stack on normal terrain in England. I sent in another 12k levy stack and still lost. I only managed to destroy the rebel with a 30k levy stack.

I also faced Mongols when I used my tactic. I beat them both, Ilkhanate and Golden Horde. In fact I must admit that when Golden Horde attacked against me I was little bit disappointed how easily I beat them.
 
The thing you need to know is... Have an Altaic commander lead horse archers. Retreat and Ambush is super fricking good and will murder everything.

I'll admit that I have a newfound respect for HA retinues. One, they seem decent on their own (especially after PDX fixed the Harass Swarm problem), but the main thing is that any of the mercenary companies in that area are solely comprised of horse archers and light cavalry (along with Tengri's Lords of the Sky, but that also has some HC for added punch). So even if you only have ~3k retinues, you can get ANOTHER 2-3k from mercenary companies that have an identical composition, put them all in the center stack with junk levies on either side, and it'll rip through just about anything. :)
 
I also faced Mongols when I used my tactic. I beat them both, Ilkhanate and Golden Horde. In fact I must admit that when Golden Horde attacked against me I was little bit disappointed how easily I beat them.

Bigger=better when you ensure that it's bigger *enough* to overcome some of the tactics on the other side. For example, when facing an army made up of 50%+ horse archers (mongols, Mamluks, etc) the magic number for me was 2-1. The Mamluks are especially annoying since you can encounter them far earlier in the game than the mongols...