Losing vassals upon winning independence war: What did I do wrong?

Secret Master

Covert Mastermind

Moderator

96 Badges

Jul 9, 2001

37.697

23.841

www.youtube.com

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Jul 23, 2014

• Add bookmark
• #1

I thought that this problem was fixed, but then I thought maybe I am doing something wrong.

I'm king of Pommerania and a vassal of the HRE. I own a significant amount of de jure territory in East Francia, Poland, and Lithuania, but I don't have those kingdoms for myself and cannot usupr/form them yet. I became a Cathar, converted my vassals to Cathar, and formed an independence faction when my liege was weak. Took the decision and won the war.

The problem is that when I win the war, the Duchy of Silesia, the county of Munster, the Duchy of Holstein, and the country of Yatavagi all become independent. They were all vassals of mine before I went into revolt. They are all same religion as me, and mostly happy. Heck, I can even revassalize Munster right away.

I was in a number of separate wars (I got attacked by rebels and Norse county conquest on Holstein), but even when I resolve those wars before taking a peace offer from my former liege, some vassals still go independent. What's the problem here?

 

DunkFunk

Major

70 Badges

Aug 26, 2010

594

10

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Jul 23, 2014

• Add bookmark
• #2

they werent in the independence faction with you?

 

Sunspawn

Lazy bastard

67 Badges

May 12, 2014

8.246

5.316

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Jul 23, 2014

• Add bookmark
• #3

But why would they go independent then? They were HIS vassals, after all.

 

Secret Master

Covert Mastermind

Moderator

96 Badges

Jul 9, 2001

37.697

23.841

www.youtube.com

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Jul 24, 2014

• Add bookmark
• #4

DunkFunk said:

they werent in the independence faction with you?

Click to expand...

They were my vassals. They couldn't join the faction if they wanted to do so.

I was by myself in the faction. I thought I might attract some allies by forming a faction, but no one else joined and I had 9000% faction strength when I fired the decision.

 

Chyll

General

57 Badges

Aug 8, 2009

2.165

654

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Jul 24, 2014

• Add bookmark
• #5

This sounds very odd, and I have not encountered it... but it almost sounds like you won independence, and that independent status cascaded down your holdings and fired a check against de jure status and cut folks free accordingly. Might be worth a bug report post.

 

Nyrael

Field Marshal

82 Badges

Jul 20, 2008

5.865

5.034

33

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Jul 24, 2014

• Add bookmark
• #6

You should submit this to the "Bug Reports" subforum.

 

Huanglukuzhu

First Lieutenant

65 Badges

Jan 4, 2014

276

61

www.hawkaoe.net

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Jul 24, 2014

• Add bookmark
• #7

I've met the same problem. They are vassels of my vassels, and they gain independance when my direct vessals lose the war against me.

 

Aardvark Bellay

Lord Wuffington of Grumpytown by the barks

21 Badges

Apr 5, 2001

15.621

3.084

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Jul 24, 2014

• Add bookmark
• #8

All on 2.1.6 or is that an older game you play through patches ?


Aaargghhh, if only the game could get to a point where it was safe to play again. Like in 1.111.

Bugfixing before DLCing ! *startscampaignandpaintspostersandflags*

*ahem*

Sounds like a bug, smells like reintroduction of an old bug.
Definitely report with save file and info.

 

Wezqu

Field Marshal

93 Badges

Jun 2, 2007

6.474

151

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Jul 24, 2014

• Add bookmark
• #9

If you guys have saves before you make peace could you upload the save to some free filehosting site and post a topic in bug reports sub-forum with description and link to the save file in question.

 

Secret Master

Covert Mastermind

Moderator

96 Badges

Jul 9, 2001

37.697

23.841

www.youtube.com

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Jul 24, 2014

• Add bookmark
• #10

Sounds like the consensus is that there is no logical reason this should be happening.

Alright, I'll bug report it.

 

H

Halcyan

General

25 Badges

Oct 28, 2013

1.987

34

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Jul 24, 2014

• Add bookmark
• #11

I encountered something similar before, though in an earlier patch version.

When declaring independence (and sometimes upon winning conquest or subjugation within the realm), you lose your vassals outside the de jure land.

In my older game, I was playing as the 1066 Caliph (to get the Caliphate Strikes Back achievement). As a vassal to Seljuk Persia, I found that if I declare a Conquest for Persia upon my liege and then win, I got Persia but I lost all of my vassals in Mesopotamia and Khiva (this was before Rajas). What I needed to do was declare independence first, and *then* declare the Conquest.

 

Michael Kim

Grand Strategy Enthusiast

86 Badges

Aug 6, 2014

266

162

michaelkim0407.com

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Aug 6, 2014

• Add bookmark
• #12

Just happend to me...

I think I get it:
What happened was (I play King of Bavaria in the HRE), since I was the faction leader, when the war started I gained the the title of Holy Roman Revolt, and my vassals that are not de jure to Bavarian Kingdom would become direct vassals of Holy Roman Revolt (this also happens when a king gets elected to become emperor: his kingdom actually loses lands). After the war is won, Holy Roman Revolt got dismissed, so those vassals go independent.
Surely something that should not happen.

 

Aardvark Bellay

Lord Wuffington of Grumpytown by the barks

21 Badges

Apr 5, 2001

15.621

3.084

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Aug 6, 2014

• Add bookmark
• #13

Allways good if there's confirmation.

There was a thread recently in the bug subforum here : http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...2.1.6-Lost-all-vassals-after-independence-war

Another related to the non-dejure vassal problem: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...vassals-upon-succession.-Bug-or-game-mechanic

I suggest to everyone experiencing it, to post in the Bug subforum and adding a safe file to it by attaching or linking it, please.
Just saying, as i haven't heard that they fixed it yet.

 

Wezqu

Field Marshal

93 Badges

Jun 2, 2007

6.474

151

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Aug 6, 2014

• Add bookmark
• #14

and to add to Aardvark post the save file should before the peace is made so before you lose the vassals.

 

BlackrazorNZ

Corporal

60 Badges

May 6, 2014

33

3

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Sep 7, 2014

• Add bookmark
• #15

Just had this happen to me in an Ironman game.

Started as Duchy of Moesia in the Alexiad start, went north and conquered and formed Kingdom of Wallachia, then conquered Crimea, Cherson and Abkhazia.

Then turned attention to Rum, and conquered almost all of Anatolia bit by bit, formed Kingdom of Anatolia as secondary kingdom (haven't formed Taurica or Bulgaria despite capability to do so as I'm long-gaming to drift all relevant duchies into Wallachia).

ERE Emperor instituted High Crown Authority, which I def. don't want, so I formed Lower Crown Auth faction, waited till he was weakened by failed Holy War into Armenia, then revolted and crushed him, accepting peace at 100% war score.

The moment I did that, all the vassals who weren't dejure part of Wallachia or Anatolia became independant, which means I've lost a good 2/5 of my territory for no reason. And since it's Ironman, I can 'undo' the balls-up.

Pretty pi$$ed at the moment - sure I know I can spend the next 200 years slowly getting claims and enforcing them 1 province at a time, but it's totally messed up my working plan which was to form a bulwark against the Mongol invasion in 100 years or so.

 

Korashy

Field Marshal

93 Badges

Jul 15, 2012

4.271

3.792

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Sep 7, 2014

• Add bookmark
• #16

Michael Kim said:

Just happend to me...

I think I get it:
What happened was (I play King of Bavaria in the HRE), since I was the faction leader, when the war started I gained the the title of Holy Roman Revolt, and my vassals that are not de jure to Bavarian Kingdom would become direct vassals of Holy Roman Revolt (this also happens when a king gets elected to become emperor: his kingdom actually loses lands). After the war is won, Holy Roman Revolt got dismissed, so those vassals go independent.
Surely something that should not happen.

Click to expand...

That is probably the explanation. Since the revolt title is emperor level and defaults to your primary title, those vassals will be considered vassals to that title. When the title seizes to exist and you "downsize" your title, those vassals go independent because the title they were linked to during the revolt is gone.

 

LACKADAISICAL

General

62 Badges

Feb 3, 2011

1.916

519

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Sep 7, 2014

• Add bookmark
• #17

Happened to me as well as the king of Georgia under the Byzantines. Michael Kim's explanation sounds right, though. The vassals I lost after the war were well outside de jure Georgia.

 

Deavid

Recruit

46 Badges

Oct 4, 2012

4

0

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Sep 21, 2014

• Add bookmark
• #18

I had this happen today in my iron man after a lower crown authority faction war in de HRE. A while back I had this happen with a zoroastrian iron man game as well after which I rage quit (I was hiding in a muslim kingdom as a mega duke and everything fragmented). It's really nasty and happens after nearly every revolt I stage.

 

Daled

Sergeant

42 Badges

May 1, 2013

54

13

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Sep 21, 2014

• Add bookmark
• #19

A similar thing happened to me while playing Abbasids in the vanilla start, I led a faction to place myself on the throne of Persia (Seljuks had 3 other kingdoms as well) and when I won the revolt, I lost everything outside dejure Persia, both vassals and demesne.