Dutch Republic is pretty awesome

Jephery · Jul 19, 2014

If Statists are in power every four years you get to choose between two random rulers with monarch level stats. I'm constantly getting rulers with at least 3 in every stat and often 4-6 in two of them, only rarely ever getting two crappy monarchs in the same pick.

Then if that monarch is extremely good you can try to push Orangists into power to keep him in for life through random events.

Republican tradition isn't an issue since Statists give a +1 bonus and you don't ever spend it on reelections, so you get a ton of extra tradition to annex vassals with.

On top of all that you get royal marriages like a noble republic for easier diplomacy. I'd say the only disadvantage to Dutch Republic is that you can't become HRE.

Key thing is to try to stay near zero so you can switch between Statists and Orangists more easily.

Empreorpoef · Jul 19, 2014

so in other words, it's unbalanced?

Jephery · Jul 19, 2014

Well, compared to a standard monarchy, you get

1. Good events and bonuses
2. The choice of 2 monarch level leaders
3. The ability to kick out bad ones every 4 years or keep good ones for life with random events adjusting Statist vs Orangist power.

You give up:
1. Becoming Holy Roman Emperor
2. Personal Unions

The trade off is fair I think because HRE and PUs are enormously powerful. Republics need good bonuses in general for that trade off to be worth it.

DicRoNero · Jul 19, 2014

Jephery said:
Well, compared to a standard monarchy, you get

1. Good events and bonuses
2. The choice of 2 monarch level leaders
3. The ability to kick out bad ones every 4 years or keep good ones for life with random events adjusting Statist vs Orangist power.

You give up:
1. Becoming Holy Roman Emperor
2. Personal Unions

The trade off is fair I think because HRE and PUs are enormously powerful. Republics need good bonuses in general for that trade off to be worth it.

I'd take that any day in any of my starts - Muscovy, Milan, Bohemia, you name it. There's no need to rush Emperor title, while PUs are overrated, especially since you now have to pay DIP to annex and keeping them afloat is a pita on its own.

Sandmann · Jul 19, 2014

But if you have royal marriages you can still get random PU's?

jockedahl · Jul 19, 2014

Good. Netherlands need all the help it can get. I never see it survive in AI games.

Alerias · Jul 19, 2014

Jephery said:
Well, compared to a standard monarchy, you get

1. Good events and bonuses
2. The choice of 2 monarch level leaders
3. The ability to kick out bad ones every 4 years or keep good ones for life with random events adjusting Statist vs Orangist power.

You give up:
1. Becoming Holy Roman Emperor
2. Personal Unions

The trade off is fair I think because HRE and PUs are enormously powerful. Republics need good bonuses in general for that trade off to be worth it.

I just tested something for the hell of it. Took Burgundy for a spin, got elected Emperor, passed reforms till the empire was hereditary, then took the Dutch decision (after wiping out France to avoid giving them anything), stayed Emperor as Dutch Republic. GG

(Does take awhile to pass reforms with the new IA changes tho)

Blijert · Jul 19, 2014

Completely agree with the OP, the republic also needs these buffs to survive against the big countries around. Especially when formed starting with a dutch minor.
(still had to ragequit when France came along, but in most games even they seem controllable)

Ignatich · Jul 19, 2014

Alerias said:
stayed Emperor as Dutch Republic. GG

Interesting. Do you still stay the emperor after you reelect the ruler?

ozonns · Jul 19, 2014

Alerias said:
I just tested something for the hell of it. Took Burgundy for a spin, got elected Emperor, passed reforms till the empire was hereditary, then took the Dutch decision (after wiping out France to avoid giving them anything), stayed Emperor as Dutch Republic. GG (Does take awhile to pass reforms with the new IA changes tho)

I need to try this!

Ignatich said:
Interesting. Do you still stay the emperor after you reelect the ruler?

I don't see why he would not, as there is no more elections in HRE after "Proclaim Erbkaisertum". And a nation is emperor, not the ruler.

Alerias · Jul 19, 2014

Yep, same way how normally if your heir is female you lose the throne, but after Erbkaisertum you can have an Empress without issues.

h0tSteel · Jul 19, 2014

Besides the awesome government form the Netherlands also has a heap of cool flavor events, many of them new from Res Publica.
The only thing the Netherlands is missing now is unique unit models, still no pack with Dutch units..

Mauer · Jul 19, 2014

Sandmann said:
But if you have royal marriages you can still get random PU's?

Probably the same as Noble Republic, which I think means no.

aitaituo · Jul 19, 2014

Jephery said:
You give up:
2. Personal Unions

If you can confirm that the Dutch Republic can no longer get PUs then you should post that in the 1.7 stealth changes thread.

Sandmann · Jul 24, 2014

Has anyone played enough dutch republic to confirm if you can get PU's with it or not? Thanks

Phaex · Jul 24, 2014

Can they build trade posts?

Jephery · Jul 24, 2014

aitaituo said:
If you can confirm that the Dutch Republic can no longer get PUs then you should post that in the 1.7 stealth changes thread.

Hmm I thought republics in general were ineligible for personal unions.

Sandmann · Jul 24, 2014

Phaex said:
Can they build trade posts?

Nope.

PostTenebrasLux · Jul 24, 2014

Kind of funny if they can't. They had a rather momentous and notable PU with England, Scotland, and Ireland in history. It would be kind of fun if you could spread Constitutional Monarchies to other countries through a special Dutch Republic PU mechanic of some kind. Not sure if it's worth the possibility of making the Dutch Republic a monster just to represent the Glorious Revolution, however.

Ranjid · Jul 28, 2014

The Dutch Republic has to be nerfed. Quite a lot actually. It's by far the most powerful out there. Just finished my Utrecht->Netherlands game. My worst leader had about 7 combined points. This is more than I usually have on average. For the last 200 years of the game I was 10+ years ahead of tech and always capped out on at least 1 monarch point category.

Also republican tradition is a joke. There's no way to lower it other than some (avoidable) events. Once you're at 100 tradition you'll always stay at 90-100. Not to mention the modifiers from Statists/Organists. My Netherlands, which consisted of all Dutch/Flemish/Wallonian provinces even beat a combined Spanish/French/Italian (Tuscany conquered eversthing down there) coalition which tried to "reconquer" Cambray. It was a breeze.

Dutch Republic is pretty awesome

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