Capturing and converting equipment

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Americans with captured German Tiger I.

Scrubbed the picture in question because it had a swastika.


Australians with captured Italian M11/39s.


Germans with captured French Somua S35s.


British with captured German Panzer III.


Germans with captured Russian T-34s.


Germans with captured Czechoslovakian Panzer 38(t)s (which made up half their tank force 1939-1940).

Lt. 38 making half of German tanks? I am sure I would be able to find some stats about it if I really wanted (and those may very well prove your point), but it seems way too much. Lt. 38 was brand new stuff when Germans came and I doubt Czechoslovakia had the industrial power to make so many of them... Perhaps Lt. 35 + Lt. 38 would make more sense...
 
Lt. 38 making half of German tanks? I am sure I would be able to find some stats about it if I really wanted (and those may very well prove your point), but it seems way too much. Lt. 38 was brand new stuff when Germans came and I doubt Czechoslovakia had the industrial power to make so many of them... Perhaps Lt. 35 + Lt. 38 would make more sense...

35s+38s is what I meant. Germany basically just used the factories in Czechoslovakia that were built to produce the Panzer 35 and 38 chassis to produce a couple of thousand more to accompany the other few hundred that they captured.
 
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well they did produce a little over 500 38(t) in 39+40 out of a total of a little over 2200 total tank produced in those two years.

Exactly. It's a critical thing during the early stages of the war which should be represented .
 
I've seen some stats that suggest nearly half of all German artillery was actually of foreign origin by 1944/45, based on Wehrmacht unit returns. So that really needs to be factored in somehow !

At the start line for Barbarossa, German tank numbers in the field were 3494, of which 155 were Pz 35(t) and 625 were Pz 38(t) - ie about 22% of the total.
 
At the start line for Barbarossa, German tank numbers in the field were 3494, of which 155 were Pz 35(t) and 625 were Pz 38(t) - ie about 22% of the total.

Yes, in mid 1941.

I was talking about it being about 50% 1939-mid 1940. Just wanted to clear that out.

Good point on the artillery btw.
 
I've seen some stats that suggest nearly half of all German artillery was actually of foreign origin by 1944/45, based on Wehrmacht unit returns. So that really needs to be factored in somehow !

At the start line for Barbarossa, German tank numbers in the field were 3494, of which 155 were Pz 35(t) and 625 were Pz 38(t) - ie about 22% of the total.

Producing tank or artillery is a matter of priority of what unit you produce in the game. The production of pz 38(t)/capture is a matter of IC captured in czech compared to the % of german IC that "should" produce tanks and also the units captured when you take the country. Both is actual important to have in a game that is about WW2. And no i dont appreciate your sarcasm
 
This should all have an effect on the efficiency of your supply and combat units though.

Lets say we have 1 combat division which has 10% czech tanks and artillery, 10% french tanks and artillery, 10% polish artilley, and 20% tanks and artillery.

Now to supply this unit we would need to have Czech factories producing ammo (consumer goods), French factories producing ammo (consumer goods), polish factories (consumer goods), USSR factories (consumer goods) and then once it's all produced this unit has to receive all these different types of spare parts and ammo from all over Europe. If they don't get that spare part, or ammo, a significant part of this division is out of service.

Now since we aren't modeling this problem (different types of ammo per unit), there should be an increased demand for supplies to these forces and a decreased combat efficiency. Ammo for Czech tanks can't be used in USSR tanks etc, so all of this extra equipment/ammo needs to be hauled around.
 
Yes, in mid 1941.

I was talking about it being about 50% 1939-mid 1940. Just wanted to clear that out.

Good point on the artillery btw.

Czech tanks weren't that numerous in 1939 or 1940 either. On the first day of the war, the combined total of Panzer III and IV in use was larger than the combined total of 35(t) and 38(t). Czech tanks combined for less than 10% of the tanks used for the attack on Poland. The number of Czech tanks increased for the attack on France, though the combined total was still less than the total of Panzer III and IV. At that time about 20% of the tanks in use were Czech tanks, mostly because the number of Panzer I and IIs in frontline units had decreased quite a bit from the year before.
 
Czech tanks weren't that numerous in 1939 or 1940 either. On the first day of the war, the combined total of Panzer III and IV in use was larger than the combined total of 35(t) and 38(t). Czech tanks combined for less than 10% of the tanks used for the attack on Poland. The number of Czech tanks increased for the attack on France, though the combined total was still less than the total of Panzer III and IV. At that time about 20% of the tanks in use were Czech tanks, mostly because the number of Panzer I and IIs in frontline units had decreased quite a bit from the year before.

20% foreign is still a hugely significant number.
 
It is. Those tanks were very important in the early stages of the war. I think it would be a very good idea to have captured equipment in the game, just wanted to correct the numbers, which were inflated by a lot ;)
 
Czech tanks weren't that numerous in 1939 or 1940 either. On the first day of the war, the combined total of Panzer III and IV in use was larger than the combined total of 35(t) and 38(t). Czech tanks combined for less than 10% of the tanks used for the attack on Poland. The number of Czech tanks increased for the attack on France, though the combined total was still less than the total of Panzer III and IV. At that time about 20% of the tanks in use were Czech tanks, mostly because the number of Panzer I and IIs in frontline units had decreased quite a bit from the year before.

Ok, point taken. But those Czech tanks and factories WERE very important for Germany's fledgling tank production. I recall the only thing that represented that in HOI3 was the Automotive Industry strategic resource in Czechoslovakia (+ to armour build speed).
 
Regarding capturing equipment: Is that only possible for tank units? How about all the other big gear? Artillery, AT guns, Self propelled variants, planes, ships?
 
Regarding capturing equipment: Is that only possible for tank units? How about all the other big gear? Artillery, AT guns, Self propelled variants, planes, ships?

We did mention a few posts back that Germany used tons of captured artillery, so yes, definitely all those things as well.
 
I take it that you'll be able to use any captured equipment as long as you meet the requirements.

No requirements. It isn't like Finland was capable of producing their own Bf 109's. In China, most of the tanks and planes that the communists used in the civil war were Japanese ones that the communists definitely didn't "have the requirements" to build.

It's not going to affect game balance since you'll rarely capture large amounts of equipment and anyone who doesn't meet the requirements won't be able to replenish things beyond their own tech level.
 
Captured equipment was in the German case either allocated due to strategical reasons or due to tactical reasons. With strategic I mean f.e. the fact that many Atlantic wall divisions & minor Axis allies were equiped with captured French/Soviet armour/artillery. This is a strategical decision.

Then there are the back and fourth capturing of isolated units - tacital reasons - the local commanders found good use of a still functional unit and along with their orders or objectives would either use it for inspection/defensive or offensive capability.

I think the second example should be ignored, it's just back and fourth - but the first example would be very interesting. Defeats in large pockets or due to peace events (Vichy event f.e.) could bring in extra equipment for free - but at a lower tech level because these units are "out of main scope". It would be nice to boost some of the smaller units in the game. So you could get some extra regiments or brigades after paying the manpower cost - perhaps you can get an upgrade for free of an existing unit.

Also remember that the Germans in most cases tried to destroy their left behind equipment that had ran out of fuel or was suffering from children disease.
 
Captured equipment was in the German case either allocated due to strategical reasons or due to tactical reasons. With strategic I mean f.e. the fact that many Atlantic wall divisions & minor Axis allies were equiped with captured French/Soviet armour/artillery. This is a strategical decision.

Then there are the back and fourth capturing of isolated units - tacital reasons - the local commanders found good use of a still functional unit and along with their orders or objectives would either use it for inspection/defensive or offensive capability.

I think the second example should be ignored, it's just back and fourth - but the first example would be very interesting. Defeats in large pockets or due to peace events (Vichy event f.e.) could bring in extra equipment for free - but at a lower tech level because these units are "out of main scope". It would be nice to boost some of the smaller units in the game. So you could get some extra regiments or brigades after paying the manpower cost - perhaps you can get an upgrade for free of an existing unit.

I don't see why at a lower tech level is required. Yes, in the example you gave, Germany is generally going to be capturing tanks and such that are at a slightly lower tech level, but if I'm the Finns and I capture advanced Soviet equipment, I don't see why it should revert back to being a Finnish armored tractor instead of a KV-1.

Also remember that the Germans in most cases tried to destroy their left behind equipment that had ran out of fuel or was suffering from children disease.

What is "children's disease?"