Monmuments

Finlayn said:

Well it would be historically accurate if the monuments were in their respective counties. Also I only mentioned those three because they're the ones I thought of while typing the post, and finally how are they not balanced?

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I meant balanced against each other.
Some bonuses to papal relations and religious vassals doesn't really balance against reduced revolt risk, bonus levy, bonus intrigue and bonus martial. That last seems enormously powerful, especially for one building.

In addition there isn't really anything demanding that the capital is the "historical" one. It's plausible for England to be governed from almost anywhere, but York is a strong contender. You'd be punishing the player even more than the current situation for having their capital elsewhere and possibly letting an AI duke build these instead.

Ashagar said:

Also Rome would be hard with all the grand monuments in Rome dating back to the empire and the republic.

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You'd actually end up with lots of provinces more buffed in Old Gods than in 1066, as much of it decayed in the interim. It's arguable that the culture in Latium should actually be "Roman" at the Old Gods start, and possibly Carinthia and Ravenna also. Although, you could go nuts with it, the fact is the Exarchate was only toppled in 751AD, by 1066 the area had changed a great deal, largely for the worse.

By contrast, the Theodosian Walls are present in all start dates.

SigurdStormhand said:

You'd actually end up with lots of provinces more buffed in Old Gods than in 1066, as much of it decayed in the interim. It's arguable that the culture in Latium should actually be "Roman" at the Old Gods start, and possibly Carinthia and Ravenna also. Although, you could go nuts with it, the fact is the Exarchate was only toppled in 751AD, by 1066 the area had changed a great deal, largely for the worse.

By contrast, the Theodosian Walls are present in all start dates.

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I know but they likely didn't include any surviving roman enclaves including Latium itself it to avoid the headaches involved of even more cultural shifts to deal with not to mention cultural buildings, troops etc.

Not to nitpick, but Notre Dame isn't a specific thing, so as King of France your capital wouldn't really matter, the Notre Dame people refer to commonly is the Notre Dame de Paris, or 'Our Lady of Paris'. So the King of France could be based in say, Anjou and create Notre Dame, it'd simply be Notre Dame de Anjou.

But the question is... Why should some Cathedrals give more bonuses then others? Why should the Notre Dame or Toledo get a bonus? And not for exemple the Cathedral of Trier? Or Aachen Cathedral? Or Nidaros Cathedral? Or all the other Cathedrals? It's allways the question... Which building should give bonuses? And why should Notre Dame for exemple give more bonuses then other similiar building?

Cause its more famous perhaps? It doesnt make game sense but thats how you pick a renowed monument for inclusion no?

I think its a good idea, but it should not be represented by nations by cultures and should have specific criteria to build them.

Simmy93 said:

Not to nitpick, but Notre Dame isn't a specific thing, so as King of France your capital wouldn't really matter, the Notre Dame people refer to commonly is the Notre Dame de Paris, or 'Our Lady of Paris'. So the King of France could be based in say, Anjou and create Notre Dame, it'd simply be Notre Dame de Anjou.

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Was gonna post this.

And for people asking what the other monuments would be... come on. There are massive cathedrals and other state buildings in all former royal capitals/major cities. Model it on the country's actual monument but change the name to reflect where it's actually built

Germany's could be modelled on the Cologne Cathedral (fits game timeline)
Italy's could be modelled on the Milan cathedral or the Duomo to avoid interfering with the papacy
Egypt could be modelled on Al-Azhar
Persia could have the imam reza shrine

etc.

I like this idea, would add a lot of local flavour... playing different nations of the same culture/religion generally feels exactly the same

Thure said:

But the question is... Why should some Cathedrals give more bonuses then others? Why should the Notre Dame or Toledo get a bonus? And not for exemple the Cathedral of Trier? Or Aachen Cathedral? Or Nidaros Cathedral? Or all the other Cathedrals? It's allways the question... Which building should give bonuses? And why should Notre Dame for exemple give more bonuses then other similiar building?

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I think that they could be grouped by types and all the buildings in that group would have the same bonus.... all the cathedrals/grand mosques give the same bonus, all the unique castles/walls give the same bonus, etc.

Thure said:

But the question is... Why should some Cathedrals give more bonuses then others? Why should the Notre Dame or Toledo get a bonus? And not for exemple the Cathedral of Trier? Or Aachen Cathedral? Or Nidaros Cathedral? Or all the other Cathedrals? It's allways the question... Which building should give bonuses? And why should Notre Dame for exemple give more bonuses then other similiar building?

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Maybe allow characters that have an empire and fulfill certain other criterias (long reign, long dynastic control of a title, prestige etc.) to build a great work in their capital. Some could be based on religion and some on culture, like great cathedrals for catholics. And the Jewish decision to rebuild the great temple should give a bonus to the temple of Jerusalem holding.

im all for a norse runestone esque decicion that costs a crapton of gold but gives a bunch of prestige/piety, and some buffs for your lifetime depending on some events(say +1 intirgue for the rest of your live or something)

grumphie said:

im all for a norse runestone esque decicion that costs a crapton of gold but gives a bunch of prestige/piety, and some buffs for your lifetime depending on some events(say +1 intirgue for the rest of your live or something)

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Seems kinda wasteful that they'd tear down the cathedral or something like that when you die...

Finlayn said:

Well it would be historically accurate if the monuments were in their respective counties. Also I only mentioned those three because they're the ones I thought of while typing the post, and finally how are they not balanced?

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Yes, but there is nothing intrinsic or predetermined in their being where they are. If things had ran a different course, they would be somewhere else. Then again, the game already has predetermined de jure capitals for kingdoms, so it would not be much of a stretch. And since they are in the game, it might be a nice addition for any king to be able to build a monumental castle or a monumental cathedral in their de jure capital if they hold it. IF, that is, we agree that having a deterministic preset capital can be condoned. I for one would like to abolish them.

classicist said:

Yes, but there is nothing intrinsic or predetermined in their being where they are. If things had ran a different course, they would be somewhere else. Then again, the game already has predetermined de jure capitals for kingdoms, so it would not be much of a stretch. And since they are in the game, it might be a nice addition for any king to be able to build a monumental castle or a monumental cathedral in their de jure capital if they hold it. IF, that is, we agree that having a deterministic preset capital can be condoned. I for one would like to abolish them.

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Me too... there should at least be some way of changing the de jure capital so that even if you give it to an AI they won't move it back unless they change it like you did (which could require prestige/gold/piety)