Need a guide for Venetian Republic

Ok..now I've advanced on a bit. (Actually started a new game as a Patrician with ruler designer. Really getting tired of Ironman and, well, all the Venetians characters just start out so bad)

Anyway, I was elected Doge much earlier than expected with my young character. Didn't really care either way, but will probably lose it for a bit soon as I'm pushin' 70.

I am generating a pretty good amount of gold right now ~30 with 6 or 7 trade posts and a lot of nice upgrades including the full mansion. I have 4000 retinues (mix of culture pikes, 2 or 3 skirmirshers, calvary and shock) Not sure the best mix here as I'm used to mainly maxxing culture rets if they are good like LBs. Pikes just don't seem like they would be overwhelming en masse, but not sure.

Anyway, my key questions now are related to capture holdings. I've noticed that trade posts appear to give a CB on the cities in provinces. I just took one from a Croatian county. Not sure if I can DOW outside the realm as a Patrician or just as Doge. It appears once you obtain a city you then get CB on the whole county.

So my issue now is understand what to do when you start grabbing land. Doge title will always be in flux..well...maybe not so much later as I grow large number of male dynasts and get a constant stream of elders. So what do I do with this cities, counties duchies?

So I take a city in Croatia and even the county? Do I hold these titles or give them out to family? Say I get a Duchy..do I start making this a primary title? If so, what does all this mean in terms of Venice? ...granted this probably has something to do with objectives in the game. Right now I just plan to focus on making Venice...and more specifically my family...a strong Trading Republic.

Also, I assume it is not a good idea to create new Merchant Republics within your empire, such as converting a Duchy to a Republic by giving it to a mayor?

(side note: I was really wow'd by how fast my retinue cap grew in a short period. I had no cap, ofc, for many years, but once my gold started to roll in and I could finally build/capture more trade posts and upgrade stuff, I soon had a cap of 7000 or so in just a few years)

A good piece of advice as Venice that I don't think has been mentioned is that, if you want to remain independent, it's a good idea to put your (obviously high-diplo) Chancellor in Constantinople to improve diplomatic relations. If your chancellor is successful at ass-kissing, then that should give you at the very least a breathing-space to expand around the Adriatic; in my current game the year is about 890 and I've been on relatively good terms with the Basileus since Day 1. That's going to have to change at some point (my vassals, in all their wisdom, built trade posts not in Italy but in Lecce, Kephalonia, Monemvasia and the Duchy of Athens before finally seeing the light and building on Benevento) but it works as a basic protective strategy.

lymond said:

Anyway, my key questions now are related to capture holdings. I've noticed that trade posts appear to give a CB on the cities in provinces. I just took one from a Croatian county. Not sure if I can DOW outside the realm as a Patrician or just as Doge. It appears once you obtain a city you then get CB on the whole county.

So my issue now is understand what to do when you start grabbing land. Doge title will always be in flux..well...maybe not so much later as I grow large number of male dynasts and get a constant stream of elders. So what do I do with this cities, counties duchies?

So I take a city in Croatia and even the county? Do I hold these titles or give them out to family? Say I get a Duchy..do I start making this a primary title? If so, what does all this mean in terms of Venice? ...granted this probably has something to do with objectives in the game. Right now I just plan to focus on making Venice...and more specifically my family...a strong Trading Republic.

Also, I assume it is not a good idea to create new Merchant Republics within your empire, such as converting a Duchy to a Republic by giving it to a mayor?

Click to expand...

You'll want to hand out baronies you end up with for seizing a province, otherwise you'll just get hit with the wrong holding penalty. You want to hold on to as many cities as you can, ideally with several stacked in one province with a trade post to set your capital when you aren't doge. I'm not entirely sure what the provinces around Venice look like but I know Capua is a really good option for Amalfi as it starts with 2 cities you can grab plus a slot to build a third so when you aren't doge you still get troop and tax boosts for 3 cities plus your mansion. You have to keep an eye on it though as the game sometimes changes your capital when going from Doge back to patrician to a different (usually worse) province.

Having each family owning at least one extra province is good because it allows you to avoid the instant game over if the republic's capital is lost no matter who happens to be doge at the time. If the current doge doesn't own a province and the capital is lost it's a game over.

lymond said:

Anyway, my key questions now are related to capture holdings. I've noticed that trade posts appear to give a CB on the cities in provinces. I just took one from a Croatian county. Not sure if I can DOW outside the realm as a Patrician or just as Doge. It appears once you obtain a city you then get CB on the whole county.

So my issue now is understand what to do when you start grabbing land. Doge title will always be in flux..well...maybe not so much later as I grow large number of male dynasts and get a constant stream of elders. So what do I do with this cities, counties duchies?

Click to expand...

Yes, you get a CB on the whole county. If you use it and win, then the main barony goes to you and the others become your vassals. The city you took originally becomes the county capital so you can just create a new vassal to give the castle to. You probably do not want to be giving land to family members yet. Remember that the number of adult male dynasty members in your court is the biggest factor in the number of trade posts you can build. Until you are more or less maxed-out on trade posts, you normally want to do everything you can to keep male dynasty members in your court. Later when you have a big enough trade empire to satisfy yourself, then you want to get rid of dynasty members as soon as you can so they don't siphon off your immediate income. The best way to do that is to win a Crusade and give everything you possibly can to dynasty members.

You want to keep as many cities as you can hold in your demesne for yourself. Give any extra out to new vassals. If you can secure a duchy, by all means keep it so that you will accumulate tech points when you are not the doge.

BTW, you might not want to take the Croatian county even though you can win. It depends how the ERE is doing. In most games, they either become a super-stable megablob or face constant revolts and loss of land from muslims. If it looks like they are going to be a megablob in your game, they will eventually be coming after Croatia. You will be holding two counties in their de jure empire, so you will face a -50 malus with the Basileus. By taking Croatia you are committing yourself to either losing it later or always keeping enough money in reserve to hire a lot of mercenaries to fend off the ERE in a protracted war. On the other hand, they don't ever seem to care very much if you just hold a city in one of their counties.

A better use of your resources might be to seize another city. If you are looking to then take the county, somewhere in Italy or de jure Bavaria (assuming they aren't part of a stable Karling megablob) are usually better targets nearby than de jure ERE. But, it does depend on how your game is going and how early in the game it is.

Great stuff, fellas...thanks

Remember: As a merchant republic, you use your gold to crush your enemies. Bribe kings to throw out your trading rivals, then throw THEM out once you get powerful enough.

Start in the Latin Empire start.