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Convert Ecumenical Patriarch to Catholicism?

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Chattus

Chattus

First Lieutenant
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Feb 4, 2014
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So I was planning to reform the Roman Empire as a Catholic and take it to Persia and India once I get the DLC. That leads me to my question: What happens to the Ecumenical Patriarch if I become a Catholic Byzantine/Roman Emperor? Is it somehow possible to convert him to Catholicism, revoke his title or unland him? Is there anything that can be done?
 
You can revoke the bishopric, but it will incur a tyranny penalty. As for making him catholic, if you revoke all of his titles and then give him a coastal city, the Ecumenical Patriarchate will become a merchant republic. Then you can convert the patricians, and when succession happens, the new Patriarch will be catholic.
 
Why doesn't he just become a regular Catholic bishop like all the others under Catholicism? I mean... if you turn the Byzantine Empire, the emperor and his vassals Catholic then you've destroyed the Orthodox church...
 
I just made a Catholic Byzantine empire. The patriarch will automaticaly switch religion to orthodox even if you force a religion change with the consol. The same happens to holy orders. If you don't want this you need to alter the 'religion =' tag in their title entry in landed_titles.txt.
 
Thanks everybody for your answers. Looks like I'll just grant him independence and press my claim for his bishopric.
 
Calantyr said:
I just made a Catholic Byzantine empire. The patriarch will automaticaly switch religion to orthodox even if you force a religion change with the consol. The same happens to holy orders. If you don't want this you need to alter the 'religion =' tag in their title entry in landed_titles.txt.
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I think that if you mend the schism as Orthodox, which makes catholic a heresy of Orthodox then switch your ruler back to catholic heresy and have it take over orthodoxy the Ecumenical Patriarch will become catholic.
 
killerbee256 said:
I think that if you mend the schism, which makes the catholic a heresy of Orthodox then switch your ruler back to catholic heresy and have it take over orthodoxy the Ecumenical Patriarch will become catholic.
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But wouldn't that break crusades?
 
killerbee256 said:
I think that if you mend the schism as Orthodox, which makes catholic a heresy of Orthodox then switch your ruler back to catholic heresy and have it take over orthodoxy the Ecumenical Patriarch will become catholic.
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That really really really shouldn't happen, because then you'd end up with a King-tier Catholic Patriarch of Constantinople who's equal in rank to the Bishop of Rome, the Pope, which would explicitly violate the Catholic position (I believe it's their position, anyway) of Papal primacy.
 
FreeSoc said:
That really really really shouldn't happen, because then you'd end up with a King-tier Catholic Patriarch of Constantinople who's equal in rank to the Bishop of Rome, the Pope, which would explicitly violate the Catholic position (I believe it's their position, anyway) of Papal primacy.
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King-tier is a secular ranking. I don't think having both Pope and Patriarch as "kings" violates Papal primacy which is about Church rank, and who is in charge within the church.

Of course ideally Catholics would be able to mend the schism themselves, probably by capturing and converting the pentarchs, plus some stuff.
 
Or you could just unland him and grant independence? It's impossible to change the religion of a religious head, nor do I understand why you'd bother.
 
Lysistrata said:
Or you could just unland him and grant independence? It's impossible to change the religion of a religious head, nor do I understand why you'd bother.
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Mostly reasons of (pseudo-)historicity. I'd like a Catholic Church of which the Ecumenical Patriarch is a member. Seeing as that is impossible I'll just go by unlanding him.

But I also have a follow up question: If I mend the schism and make Catholicism the new orthodoxy wouldn't the Ecumenical Patriarch become the head of the heresy?
 
They do. I kept him as a vassal anyway.
 
Chattus said:
Mostly reasons of (pseudo-)historicity. I'd like a Catholic Church of which the Ecumenical Patriarch is a member. Seeing as that is impossible I'll just go by unlanding him.

But I also have a follow up question: If I mend the schism and make Catholicism the new orthodoxy wouldn't the Ecumenical Patriarch become the head of the heresy?
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No, at least, I don't think that's how replacing the orthodoxy of a religion works - can't say I've ever tried it. I'd presume the Pope would remain head of the Church.
 
I'd think it would be similar to making Fratticelli the orthodoxy. The Catholic Pope doesn't become Fratticelli and the Fratticelli Pope doesn't become Catholic. The Pope would remain the head of the now orthodox Catholic church, and the Ecumenical Patriarch would be the head of the now heretical Orthodox church.
 
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