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Hearts of Iron IV - Development Diary 4 - Land Doctrines

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Darkrenown said:
"Swap out of it?" I hear you say. Yes, you can change your Doctrine path if you want. This will come at a cost. There will be a period of disorganisation for your army based on how far into your previous path you were and on the size of your army, so it's likely not something you want to do when things are going very poorly in the middle of a war. However, you do not necessarily start from scratch in your new Doctrine path: Several techs are shared between the paths, and if you switch to a path which includes a shared tech you have already researched you will start at that point in the new tree.
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First, thanx for the DD :)

I imagine you mean that if your forces are heavily engaged, its a baaaad idea to switch Doctrine ? (rather than "going poorly" i mean). If so, Germany cannot switch really, except for the (historically) relatively calm period of post France, pre Russia (only Yugo and Greece in that period). Thats not trying to say that they'd want to switch of course, just thinking of if at any point old Iosef gives Adolf a solid right, and Germany ends up on the defensive on the Eastern Front, a defensive posture through Doctrine as such is pretty much out of the question ?

Or did you mean "disorganization" as a simple "you are X into tree A, and want to move to tree B, that'll cost each unit 50 organization points" type of thing, which might slow things down a bit if things go well, but isnt very dangerous, but would be an absolute disaster in a defensive scenario ?
 
Yes, thank for the information.
Some things are unclear a little.

Is it land-warfare doctrine only?
Is it possible to go for every doctrine a little than to choose a complethe path (cause all a little is an own doctrin in my eyes) ?
We still can research hardware technology unlimited?
 
Interesting stuff, although the trees seem a bit short, compared to HOI 2. Then again, it was stated that countries will be able to research less things simultaneously than they wee able to, before. Can't wait for Naval Doctrines! (Whenever that diary comes.)
 
PlacidDragon said:
I imagine you mean that if your forces are heavily engaged, its a baaaad idea to switch Doctrine ?
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Yup, this.

-Toni82- said:
Yes, thank for the information.
Some things are unclear a little.

Is it land-warfare doctrine only?
Is it possible to go for every doctrine a little than to choose a complethe path (cause all a little is an own doctrin in my eyes) ?
We still can research hardware technology unlimited?
Click to expand...

This is only the land doctrine tree, yes.
You cannot go down multiple paths at the same time, they are mutually exclusive.
There are no exclusive choices in military hardware, it's more of a question of what you have time to research and build.
 
Darkrenown said:
This is only the land doctrine tree, yes.
You cannot go down multiple paths at the same time, they are mutually exclusive.
There are no exclusive choices in military hardware, it's more of a question of what you have time to research and build.
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So I think it will be the same with naval and air doctrines.
I am not sure if its good or bad.
I imagine playing Germany in 1943....I need offense doctrines in the east and defense doctrines in the west in air and land warfare.
In HOI3 you could customize your technology and doctrines for your individual situation, with decisions which lead to good and bad situations during same time as well.
I will not speak it bad, cause the DD shows only a little window of an Alpha - but I've to admit that some fear is poping up inside me :huh:
 
I think it's absolutely great that every doctrine branch now grants at least some kind of bonuses to different kinds of troops, like mot/mec/arm even for the Mass Combat one. Because in HoI3 a country like Soviet Union oftentimes just couldn't afford to invest in the Blitzkrieg doctrine, making it's armor units so useless and incompetent compared to the Germans that they were just a waste of resources. I mean, they should be inferior, right, but not to the extent that rendered every mechanized unit completely pointless.

The only thing is that (at least judging by the pictures), I don't see any doctrines that granted artillery bonuses in Mass Combat, but maybe there should be some? Think about the final stages of war when the Soviets used obliterating Katyusha barrages on every potential resistance point before moving the ground troops in.

Oh, and the last thing I was going to ask: would these doctrines have just one or multiple tires (like in HoI3)?
 
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Aeroclub said:
I think it's absolutely great that every doctrine branch now grants at least some kind of bonuses to different kinds of troops, like mot/mec/arm even for the Mass Combat one. Because in HoI3 a country like Soviet Union oftentimes just couldn't afford to invest in the Blitzkrieg doctrine, making it's armor units so useless and incompetent compared to the Germans that they were just a waste of resources. I mean, they should be inferior, right, but not to the extent that rendered every mechanized unit completely pointless.

The only thing is that (at least judging by the pictures), I don't see any doctrines that granted artillery bonuses in Mass Combat, but maybe there should be some? Think about the final stages of war when the Soviets used obliterating Katyusha barrages on every potential resistance point before moving the ground troops in.

Oh, and the last thing I was going to ask: would these doctrines have just one or multiple tires (like in HoI3)?
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If they have all multiple, then no problems regarding defense/offense focus, as it seems every doctorine has something that affects defense (and obviously attack). If there are multiple tiers, then i would propably choose mobile warfare doctorine. Or perhaps still grand battleplan... Damn, i dunno.
 
The numbering of this Dev Diary as "4" implies the one on national dogs was real. :D
 
Sounds fantastic so far. :) I look forwards to turning French Doctrine on its head as per Charles De Gaulle's rather Guderian-like/Blitzkriegy vision laid out in his book; Army of the Future.
 
Darkrenown said:
(...)It also reduces the planning time needed before you can launch an attack.(...)
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Intriguing... So this means we MUST make battle plans, or else it will not be possible to attack?
 
Kung Zog said:
It simulates the Japanese strategy during WW2. They came, like most countries, from the Grand Plan Doctrine but also implemented infiltration. However infiltration was mostly a "tactical doctrine" rather than a "Strategic" or "Operational doctrine" and it is quite possible that the game binds those two together.
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A bit forced, however. Considering the results at Guadalcanal it was a bit crappy doctrine heh... I think the problem arises when you mix "doctrine" with "only possible way of fighting". In a place with lots of jungle, artillery and tanks become much more useless and there is no other way to fight that sending infantry in loose formations. Not to mention that Japan didn´t have the industrial basis the US had, so they couldn´t afford to do what the US did when they were the ones invading. Look the way the US fought in Vietnam - was it THAT different from the way Japan did apart from also having tanks and lots of air support?

That is, fighting in jungle hasn´t THAT much to do with doctrine, unless you consider it to also be "well if I don´t have equipment X I will fight like this".
 
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love the icons, the style is fantastic. Looking forward to hearing more about doctrines later when more is set in stone. I like the paths of Mobile warfare and superior firepower more as the layout provides more customization. Where the other two is a little one track minded which i think is a shame.
 
-Toni82- said:
So I think it will be the same with naval and air doctrines.
I am not sure if its good or bad.
I imagine playing Germany in 1943....I need offense doctrines in the east and defense doctrines in the west in air and land warfare.
In HOI3 you could customize your technology and doctrines for your individual situation, with decisions which lead to good and bad situations during same time as well.
I will not speak it bad, cause the DD shows only a little window of an Alpha - but I've to admit that some fear is poping up inside me :huh:
Click to expand...

Naval has exclusive trees, but air is more mix n match for the most part.

Doctrines don't mean "The only thing you can do", it's more "this is our main focus". An army that has maxed out the Modern Blitzkrieg will still defend better than someone with no doctrine techs.

Super-Soviet said:
The numbering of this Dev Diary as "4" implies the one on national dogs was real. :D
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Of course!

Poh said:
love the icons, the style is fantastic. Looking forward to hearing more about doctrines later when more is set in stone. I like the paths of Mobile warfare and superior firepower more as the layout provides more customization. Where the other two is a little one track minded which i think is a shame.
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This is something we've talked about too. Podcat wants me to make a split for the other paths too, but while I could make a split just for the sake of having a split I don't have any good ideas for them. Both the Assault branch of Grand Battleplan and the Deep Battle side of Mass Assault are generalist "everything gets better as we learn from our mistakes" paths that I don't feel lend themselves to splitting. If anyone has any good suggestions I'd consider it.
 
SFSLovenought said:
I don't really understand Infiltration.
What does that even mean, and how do you segue from huge, pre-planned set piece WW1 battles to sneaky sneaky unorthodox infiltration? (If that's what the doctrine is about.)
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Presumably it's related to late World War I "infiltration tactics":
Light infantry lead the attack (with artillery support to neutralize enemy reserves) in order to seize strongpoints and bypass strong fortifications, then your own reserves follow up and consolidate the gains. It presumably represents the tactics used in e.g. the 1918 German Spring Offensive, modernized to 1940s warfare.
 
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